Log Entry: Other Worlds SF Chat [Members - 1] 1/17/02 08:52 PM OWC Mars: ***The opinions expressed in OWC Mars: this chat are not necessarily OWC Mars: those of The OWC Mars: Other*Worlds*Cafe or OWC Mars: America Online.*** HOST EBK Astra: LOL. Hi Lori :) OnlineHost: JDipale has entered the room. Lori Ann White 1: Hi! HOST EBK Astra: JDipale, welcome to the O*W*C - tonight OWC Mars is interviewing author Lori HOST EBK Astra: Ann White. We are using protocol. Please type a '?' or a '!', and you will be put HOST EBK Astra: in the Queue. JDipale: Ten Queue, Astra HOST EBK Astra: Ten hut? OWC Mars: Lori...pleased to see you here tonight, welcome! Lori Ann White 1: Hi, glad to be here. HOST EBK Astra: ? JDipale: Glad to be here? Must be a newcomer to this room JDipale: ::::: Gazes at the sky with wide innocent eyes::::: OWC Mars: Lori, why don't we start things off tonight... HOST EBK Astra: ::: chases JD with an ice pick ::: OWC Mars: by you introducing yourself to us? Lori Ann White 1: Well, I'm Lori Ann White, and in addition to fiction Lori Ann White 1: I'm a technical writer and a martial artist. Lori Ann White 1: I live near San Francisco and I have three cats. Lori Ann White 1: Oh. And a husband. HOST EBK Astra: LOL Lori Ann White 1: And I'm currently working on a historical fantasy... Lori Ann White 1: set in southern China during the Boxer Rebellion. Lori Ann White 1: It's got martial arts, Taoist wizards, demons, and lots of action. OWC Mars: Sounds Exciting Lori! Lori Ann White 1: It's really been a lot of fun. Lori Ann White 1: I'm trying to write it just like a Hong Kong movie. OnlineHost: E cat s has entered the room. HOST EBK Astra: E cat s, welcome to the O*W*C - tonight OWC Mars is interviewing author Lori HOST EBK Astra: Ann White. We are using protocol. Please type a '?' or a '!', and you will be put JDipale: [{{{{{{{{{{ E }}}}}}}}}}}] HOST EBK Astra: in the Queue. HOST EBK Astra: Hi E :) OWC Mars: Barry... I see that you put a ? up there.. have a question? OWC Mars: How did you get hooked up with roach and Jintsu ? Lori Ann White 1: The RumorMill, really. Lori Ann White 1: I noticed these sensible posts, and when I found out she was an editor, I tried to sell her stuff. Lori Ann White 1: Much of my work is--let's face it--too long. But that's what Roach wants for Jintsu. OnlineHost: BG1818 has entered the room. HOST EBK Astra: BG1818, welcome to the O*W*C - tonight OWC Mars is interviewing author Lori HOST EBK Astra: Ann White. We are using protocol. Please type a '?' or a '!', and you will be put HOST EBK Astra: in the Queue. HOST EBK Astra: Hi BG :) Lori Ann White 1: I'm hoping that writing a book will get the "long" bug out of my system for a bit. BG1818: Hello! HOST EBK Astra: Oh but, long is GOOD! OWC Mars: Astra... queue? HOST EBK Astra: The current Queue contains the following users: HOST EBK Astra JDipale: Hi BG! OWC Mars: Astra go ahead. HOST EBK Astra: What's the story in Asimov's about, Lori? Lori Ann White 1: Long as in novella length is very had to sell. Lori Ann White 1: WHoops. That's very hard to sell Lori Ann White 1: There are very few markets for it. HOST EBK Astra: Gwad, I hope I got the right zine. :/ Lori Ann White 1: The story coming out in Asimov's is called "Target Audience" Lori Ann White 1: The "what if" question there is--what if product packaging included holographic projections that continued to advertise after you bought the product. HOST EBK Astra: Eeeek Lori Ann White 1: I had a lot of fun trashing beloved brands. Lori Ann White 1: But I had to back off for legal reasons and come up with some of my own products. OWC Mars: LOL! HOST EBK Astra: Hey, you got noticed by Gardner. That's great :) Lori Ann White 1: When Mr. Clean is the bad guy, you know you're having a good time. HOST EBK Astra: WHat month is it coming out in? Do you know? JDipale: LOL OWC Mars: Roach is up in Queue....Roach, your question please? Lori Ann White 1: Thanks. Haven't sold him anything else yet. OnlineHost: MelodicLee has entered the room. HOST EBK Astra: MelodicLee, welcome to the O*W*C - tonight OWC Mars is interviewing author HOST EBK Astra: Lori Ann White. We are using protocol. Please type a '?' or a '!', and you will HOST EBK Astra: be put in the Queue. JDipale: Hi Mel! Lori Ann White 1: Unfortunately I don't know yet what month the story is coming out. OWC Mars: YOu mentioned OWC Mars: working on a book to work out OWC Mars: the long bug. Would that be OWC Mars: the historical fantasy that you OWC Mars: mentioned earlier? Lori Ann White 1: Yes. The rough draft came in at about 115K. Lori Ann White 1: I've gotten the galleys, though, so they can use it whenever they want. Lori Ann White 1: It's ready to go. Lori Ann White 1: Hear that, Gardner? JDipale: LOL, Gard hears all! OWC Mars: Lori, you mentioned that your book has Taoist wizards--how did you mix the two? Lori Ann White 1: I'm not quite sure I understand your question... OWC Mars: Ooops...we lost Lori ... hold on while I get her back. BG1818: Here name is still up here. HOST EBK Astra: OWCMars must be doing some cybermagic that I don't know about :) OnlineHost: Lori Ann White 1 has entered the room. HOST EBK Astra: re's Lori! OWC Mars: Okay...we have her back. Lori Ann White 1: Like I was saying... Lori Ann White 1: there are several esoteric Taoist sects... BG1818: OK OWC Mars: Are they just traditional wizards who also happen to be Taoists? Lori Ann White 1: It got quite a ways from simle yin and yang. OnlineHost: JTOWN1737 has entered the room. HOST EBK Astra: JTOWN1737, welcome to the O*W*C - tonight OWC Mars is interviewing author HOST EBK Astra: Lori Ann White. We are using protocol. Please type a '?' or a '!', and you will HOST EBK Astra: be put in the Queue. Lori Ann White 1: Trust me, Taoism and wizardry mix quite well. OWC Mars: Lori...would you say that you are primarily a fantasist? OWC Mars: Right Now? Lori Ann White 1: Yes, right now I'd say I am primarily a fantasist. Lori Ann White 1: But I've always loved hard SF. Lori Ann White 1: I'd love to write it, as well. Lori Ann White 1: I think I'm crazy, but I'm going to go back to school in the fall, and take all the classes... BG1818: ? OWC Mars: I already took but can't remember. OWC Mars: Actually it's all Ken Wharton's fault. Lori Ann White 1: I'm working on a hard SF collaboration with him, and having way too much fun. OWC Mars: I LOL, we just had Wharton out here ... but tell me... OWC Mars: Why is it HIS fault...just because of the collaboration? Lori Ann White 1: Yup. Pretty much because of the collaboration and that it's been so much fun. Plus I always did love science in school. OnlineHost: SpleenVent has entered the room. HOST EBK Astra: SpleenVent, welcome to the O*W*C - tonight OWC Mars is interviewing author HOST EBK Astra: Lori Ann White. We are using protocol. Please type a '?' or a '!', and you will HOST EBK Astra: be put in the Queue. JDipale: Hi Spleen! OWC Mars: Beth..you have a question for Lori? Lori Ann White 1: I just went through some rough times in college and defaulted to what was, for me, an easier course load. BG1818: I was just going to ask her what she was planning on studying when she goes back to school. SpleenVent: Hiya BG,Ecat,Astra,JD,Jt,Lori & Mars HOST EBK Astra: ::: waving ::: Lori Ann White 1: I hope old dogs can relearn tricks. BG1818: ? Lori Ann White 1: I'll start with basic science survey courses. Lori Ann White 1: I do love fantasy, don't get me wrong-- Lori Ann White 1: but there's something about coming up with something that's tied into the way the world really works that is very appealing to me. OWC Mars: Beth go ahead. BG1818: I just wanted to say HI! We've met and I've sent you photos before. Lori Ann White 1: Hi, Beth! Great Christmas card, as usual. Lori Ann White 1: I was hoping you'd come. BG1818: Thank you! I'm glad you liked it. JDipale: Give Peas a Chance!!! OWC Mars: For those of you who don't get OWC Mars: the Cybling Mailer or the OWC OWC Mars: Mailer...Maybe we can get OWC Mars: roach to give us the URL of HOST EBK Astra: o/~ She's got the whole world ... in her hands ... o/~ OWC Mars: Lori's excerpt? OWC Mars: http://www.eggplant- OWC Mars: productions.com/jintsu/etext.asp JDipale: I get the mailer, but the URL would be handy right now :) OWC Mars: ?id=6 <-- Contains an excerpt OWC Mars: and ordering information for Etta OWC Mars: Mae's Little Theory, Lori's first e- OWC Mars: book. OWC Mars: http://www.eggplant-productions.com/jintsu/etext.asp?id=6 Lori Ann White 1: Shameless Self Promotion Time! BG1818: Well, I hate to say Hi and run but I need to get to sleep. Take care! BYE! HOST EBK Astra: Night, BG! OWC Mars: Roach you had a question? OWC Mars: Yes, I was going to OWC Mars: ask Lori if she could give us a OWC Mars: little information on her e-book. Lori Ann White 1: Etta Mae comes from watching too much late night television. Lori Ann White 1: Bye, Beth. HOST EBK Astra: Or Daytime Downey :) Lori Ann White 1: I saw a commercial about psychics and realized they all had one thing in common-- OWC Mars: LOL, I hear that Lori...that's where you got the idea originally? Lori Ann White 1: That commercial started it all. Lori Ann White 1: I realized all the psychics on it were overweight and thought--what if? OnlineHost: FIJAGDH has entered the room. HOST EBK Astra: FIJAGDH, welcome to the O*W*C - tonight OWC Mars is interviewing author JDipale: FIJ!!! HOST EBK Astra: Lori Ann White. We are using protocol. Please type a '?' or a '!', and you will HOST EBK Astra: be put in the Queue. JDipale: . OWC Mars: Fascinating. People who are overweight or are not what we consider movie star material... OWC Mars: often don't become heros in SF or Fantasy for that matter.. HOST EBK Astra: (wish she'd tell me how the story ends, for those of us that are cheap ) Lori Ann White 1: Yeah. But Etta Mae is the best character I've ever created. Lori Ann White 1: Everyone has that sort of insecurity about something. It doesn't have to be weight. Lori Ann White 1: Well, I can tell you that Etta Mae discovers her psychic powers, but that's not how the story ends. Lori Ann White 1: That's pretty much how it starts. OnlineHost: Juliestown has entered the room. HOST EBK Astra: Juliestown, welcome to the O*W*C - tonight OWC Mars is interviewing author HOST EBK Astra: Lori Ann White. We are using protocol. Please type a '?' or a '!', and you will HOST EBK Astra: be put in the Queue. OWC Mars: Lori, do you see yourself using less than moviestar quality heros in the future now? Lori Ann White 1: Oh, all the time. OWC Mars: And Roach has a question. JTOWN1737: Hi all I missed while getting a pre-midnight snack OWC Mars: Janice asked a OWC Mars: question a while ago at Frank OWC Mars: Tuttle's Chat that I had thought OWC Mars: was fun... OWC Mars: If Etta Mae's Little Theory was OWC Mars: made into a movie, who would OWC Mars: you see playing the principals? Lori Ann White 1: Oh, my gosh. Since they're not movie star material, there aren't as many options. Lori Ann White 1: I think Etta Mae would have to be some complete unknown. OWC Mars: But there is special effects makeup and prosthetics and CGI Lori Ann White 1: Women, especially, have no leeway in looks in movies. Lori Ann White 1: It's very depressing. FIJAGDH: Later. OWC Mars: That it is. Lori...you have quite a list of stories on the Eggplant-Productions site... OWC Mars: Do you have a URL for a personal webpage with a more complete bib? Lori Ann White 1: Um...real soon now. Lori Ann White 1: When I have any extra time, I spend it writing. OWC Mars: I was just wondering if any of your other works... OWC Mars: were excerpted online, or online to be read. JTOWN1737: later Lori Ann White 1: I have a story called "Sex with an Alien" in the archives at Neverworlds. OWC Mars: Well I know one or two people who would be very interested in that story. HOST EBK Astra: URL, please :) HOST EBK Astra: ROFL OWC Mars: Do you have the URL for Neverworlds offhand? Lori Ann White 1: www.neverworlds.com OWC Mars: lol Lori Ann White 1: They also accepted another story... Lori Ann White 1: "Flights of Angels." Don't know when that will be out. Lori Ann White 1: That's about it for online stuff. OWC Mars: But Neverworlds is an ezine? E cat s: Night, folks :) Lori Ann White 1: Yes, Neverworlds is an ezine. Lori Ann White 1: I really started writing before ezines had arrived. HOST EBK Astra: Night, E :) OWC Mars: When DID you start writing? OWC Mars: Night E. Lori Ann White 1: I ended up taking off about a decade--I've really just started writing again in the last few years. Lori Ann White 1: Well, I started about twenty years ago. Lori Ann White 1: All you young pups out there, don't stop. OWC Mars: After the collaboration with OWC Mars: Wharton and the Novel are OWC Mars: done...are you planning on OWC Mars: concentrating on short stories OWC Mars: from then on? OnlineHost: T83BIRD has entered the room. HOST EBK Astra: T83BIRD, welcome to the O*W*C - tonight OWC Mars is interviewing author Lori HOST EBK Astra: Ann White. We are using protocol. Please type a '?' or a '!', and you will be put HOST EBK Astra: in the Queue. JDipale: Hi T8! Lori Ann White 1: No, not really. T83BIRD: Hey, all. Lori Ann White 1: I do have ideas for other novels... Lori Ann White 1: but I'd like to improve my short story writing skills. With emphasis on "short." OWC Mars: And we have a question from Roach. OWC Mars: You've mentioned a couple of times now that you want to write shorter... OWC Mars: What would you say is it that keeps your stories long? Lori Ann White 1: Um, I love to explore. Lori Ann White 1: I love to set up a situation and look at every part of it... Lori Ann White 1: I love to toss in lots of subplots and listen to people talk... Lori Ann White 1: and just follow it as it all works itself out. OnlineHost: Blantyr has entered the room. HOST EBK Astra: You don't sound like a short story writer :) Lori Ann White 1: That can take a lot of wordage. HOST EBK Astra: Blantyr, welcome to the O*W*C - tonight OWC Mars is interviewing author Lori HOST EBK Astra: Ann White. We are using protocol. Please type a '?' or a '!', and you will be put HOST EBK Astra: in the Queue. Lori Ann White 1: Of course, I just blather on a lot, too. OWC Mars: lol HOST EBK Astra: LOL JDipale: LOL Lori Ann White 1: No, I guess I'm probably not... Lori Ann White 1: But I think there's much to be gained from being able to write short... OnlineHost: Marri75 has entered the room. Lori Ann White 1: Things like a good focus on the story at hand--I can drift off at times-- HOST EBK Astra: Marri75, welcome to the O*W*C - tonight OWC Mars is interviewing author Lori HOST EBK Astra: Ann White. We are using protocol. Please type a '?' or a '!', and you will be put HOST EBK Astra: in the Queue. Lori Ann White 1: and an ability to pack a good punch. Lori Ann White 1: And they're easier to sell. OWC Mars: And to sell to mags like Asimovs and Analog et al. Lori Ann White 1: You got it. The problem with the collaboration... Lori Ann White 1: is that it's too long. I guess I'm corrupting Ken. OWC Mars: lol Blantyr: ! OnlineHost: Athanor IX has entered the room. OWC Mars: Lori...we've had you on the hot seat for nearly an hour now... HOST EBK Astra: Athanor IX, welcome to the O*W*C - tonight OWC Mars is interviewing author HOST EBK Astra: Lori Ann White. We are using protocol. Please type a '?' or a '!', and you will Athanor IX: Hi. HOST EBK Astra: Blantyr you have been added to the Queue! Lori Ann White 1: Doesn't seem that long. HOST EBK Astra: Hi Ath :) OWC Mars: Go ahead Blantyr. Blantyr: Just a comment. Blantyr: I've been web spinning, which is another media which rewards brevity. Blantyr: Web surfers have an even shorter attention span. Blantyr: I appreciate what you say about keeping writing tight. Blantyr: .// Lori Ann White 1: Good thing to keep in mind when I finally get my site done. OWC Mars: Are there any further questions here for Lori? Lori Ann White 1: But different people like different things. Thank God. Blantyr: :-) OWC Mars: Okay... I have a final question for you, Lori. OnlineHost: Stanleyjd85 has entered the room. Lori Ann White 1: Shoot. HOST EBK Astra: Stanleyjd85, welcome to the O*W*C - tonight OWC Mars is interviewing author HOST EBK Astra: Lori Ann White. We are using protocol. Please type a '?' or a '!', and you will HOST EBK Astra: be put in the Queue. OWC Mars: If you could give one piece of advice to new writers (other than stick with it)... OWC Mars: what would that be? Lori Ann White 1: Oh, my.... Lori Ann White 1: Um, you sure I can't say stick with it? Lori Ann White 1: Keep writing is really the most important. OWC Mars: Well, the second most important then. Lori Ann White 1: Well, believe in yourself... Lori Ann White 1: but be prepared to accept that some of your *words* may not be deathless prose. Lori Ann White 1: You can always improve. OWC Mars: lol. Thank you Lori. OWC Mars: Folks...let's give Lori a hand for coming out to chat with us tonight. Lori Ann White 1: Thanks. It's been fun. HOST EBK Astra: ::: Applause!! ::: T83BIRD: Thanks, Lori. Blantyr: :-) Lori Ann White 1: Thanks, everybody. JDipale: Thanks Lori! OWC Mars: what a great chat! OWC Mars: We'll be pulling Roach of Eggplant productions in in a moment... OWC Mars: In the meantime...folks...how do you feel about reading fantasy on the web? Blantyr: At what level? Baen is publishing chapters of upcoming releases. Then again, there is the fan fiction web ring. Quality and presentation differ. HOST EBK Astra: ::: somersaulting ::: OWC Mars: Any level Blantyr. Blantyr: Baen's technique works well. It is fun to read the first chapter of an upcoming Miles Vokosigan or Honor Harrington book.... Blantyr: and I will generally move on to buy the book, though I would have bought it anyway. Blantyr: On the other hand, I write more fan fiction than I read. Blantyr: I've got a too large fannish web site, but don't bother very often to visit other fannish sites. OnlineHost: RaechelMoon has entered the room. T83BIRD: Hi Raechel Blantyr: ::sticks a pin into a baloon to see if there are echoes.:: RaechelMoon: waves to T83 T83BIRD: afk JDipale: Hi Raechel! OWC Mars: Roach, what do you think about the quality of fantasy on the web? RaechelMoon: Well it depends on where you go to get it. OnlineHost: Araiused has entered the room. Araiused: brb OWC Mars: Folks...Raechel Moon is with JDipale: Arai!!! OWC Mars: us tonight...but we're just having OWC Mars: a general chat about the quality OWC Mars: of fantasy on the web. Araiused: Hey! OWC Mars: Hi Ara. Araiused: I thought I couldn't see ya! RaechelMoon: Some sites have put a lot of effort in publishing great stories, and some sites will put up anything they get sent. JDipale: I can see you RaechelMoon: We've been having a discussion about this as it relates to e-books. Araiused: 'Allo allo allo OWC Mars: Who's we? RaechelMoon: Matt and I and a couple of other people. We just posted our year end report for Eggplant... RaechelMoon: And the discussion came around because we've realized that we need to have double digits in our catalog (10 or more) before we'll start breaking even. OWC Mars: And for folks who aren't familiar with Eggplant's set-up... Matt is your Webmaster. RaechelMoon: But the question then becomes...do we fill that number or do we take the time to find stories worth publishing...I think several publishers have gone the route of publishing quantity rather than quality. Araiused: Let me refresh my memory. Eggplant is a fanzine or something else? RaechelMoon: Eggplant is a speculative ficiton publishing house--small press now. www.eggplant-productions.com OWC Mars: You do a pulp quarterly as well as ebooks... just for those who aren't familiar. RaechelMoon: It's an age old question in any field: quantity or quality? It doesn't matter if you're searching for fantasy on the web or searching for a good book at your local bookstore. Araiused: Why the name "Eggplant"? :) Araiused: Why not aubergine? RaechelMoon: The full name is Eggplant Literary Productions....it's a long embarrassing story that originates in High School. OWC Mars: lol would like to hear it sometime. JDipale: well, if it's embarrassing, DO TELL!!! Araiused: When people say "eggplant" I say "aubergine" :) Araiused: JD is all for scandals :) RaechelMoon: I'm saving the story for my autobiography when I'm rich and famous. ;> T83BIRD: Raechel, in the O*W*C it would be pun material. RaechelMoon: I have to say that the future of fantasy online looks good. OWC Mars: It looks good? How so Roach? RaechelMoon: There are several online magazines that have made it to the 12 - 18 month mark. They're well produced and publish some great stories. JDipale: what's the good of reading online, if you can't stay online? RaechelMoon: And they pay professional rates...while I don't think that money makes the market, I do count that as a plus if the quality standard has been met. OnlineHost: LewTager has entered the room. RaechelMoon: JD that's why you buy e-books...ours come in cute little mini-cds if you decide you need something tangible. ;> T83BIRD: Hi Lew LewTager: Hi JDipale: oh, cool! Araiused: Hi, Lew LewTager: Howdy OWC Mars: BTW, JD...I happen to know you do buy ebooks. OWC Mars: Hi Lew! We're talking right now with Raechel Moon, editor of Jintsu Texts and Spellbound. LewTager: cool JDipale: TRUE, an reading an ATK Butterfly book right now RaechelMoon: I'm saving the story for my autobiography when I'm rich and famous. ;> RaechelMoon: I have to say that the future of fantasy online looks good. OWC Mars: It looks good? How so Roach? RaechelMoon: There are several online magazines that have made it to the 12 - 18 month mark. They're well produced and publish some great stories. JDipale: what's the good of reading online, if you can't stay online? RaechelMoon: And they pay professional rates...while I don't think that money makes the market, I do count that as a plus if the quality standard has been met. RaechelMoon: JD that's why you buy e-books...ours come in cute little mini-cds if you decide you need something tangible. ;> JDipale: oh, cool! OWC Mars: BTW, JD...I happen to know you do buy ebooks. OWC Mars: we have a picture of the mini-cd on the website JDipale: TRUE, an reading an ATK Butterfly book right now RaechelMoon: too bad Dave didn't stick around he'd have been tickled to hear that. JDipale: HA, how do you think I found the place to buy the ebook in the first place :) Araiused: How, JD? RaechelMoon: LOL...yeah Dave is a great self-promoter. JDipale: I told him the Boson Books is promising the Rust Bucket books for Microsoft Reader...eventually OWC Mars: Rick...what do you think about the quality of fantasy on the web? RaechelMoon: As long as e-publishing has people like Dave it'll do okay. JDipale: I like his stories a lot, I've read about 6 or 7 of his books Araiused: How big is a Microsoft Reader? JDipale: It's just hard lugging this computer to the beach OWC Mars: Microsoft reader is an application, like Adobe PDF reader JDipale: Only a few MEGS, Arai rick552aaa: howdy Athanor IX: I'd prefer Ebooks in PDF or some other nicely-printing format. Araiused: Size like a laptop or a Palm pilot? Dipale: Arai, it is a program for the computer Araiused: OIC, Controller Athanor IX: What advantage does it have over PDF? JDipale: I use both Araiused: I'd rather have a palm sized reader to read ebooks Plmckissic: ;-) JD!!! JDipale: Like both OWC Mars: It supports the Open Ebook Standard...but has no marketshare...unlike PDF RaechelMoon: We publish our e-books in PDF format because it offers a level of controll over fomrat that I like. We're working on a PalmPilot format. RaechelMoon: level of control over formatting I should say. Athanor IX: I'd rather print it on my shiny new laser. Rick552aaa: i would like to learn more about fantasy and scifi on the web, any good suggestions? Plmckissic: I'd only like it if I didn't have to print it - otherwise I'd just bring the book - no? JDipale: The Other Worlds Cafe is A great place for Sci Fi! RaechelMoon: That it is. ;> OWC Mars: I particularly like reading on my Handspring. OWC Mars: Palm is good RaechelMoon: www.eggplant-productions.com <-- shamelessly flinging my url online. Phx8: I'm still kicking... JDipale: LOL Araiused: I see that, Phx LewTager: does anybody remember who came up with the premise that King Arthur's magician Merlin was an extraterrestrial? Araiused: Reading off a Palm could be handy RaechelMoon: JD what do you think of the fantasy you find online? OWC Mars: Now that was a sly pun. Araiused: Not that I remember, Lew Araiused: No pun intended actually, Mars :) JDipale: save the Puns for the next Pun chat! Plmckissic: I'm with you,. Ara, I'd love to be able download books onto my Palm rick552aaa: nite everyone!! JDipale: Two Authors I LIKE LOTS online are BAH and Butterfly RaechelMoon: You can buy e-books from Palm Digital Media...they sold nearly 180,000 units in 2001. OWC Mars: www.memoware.com for Palm Pilot content Gandalara: I just read a story on the web, Mars. Proud of me? No paper! LOL RaechelMoon: I enjoy BAH's work. OWC Mars: who RaechelMoon: Brian A Hopkins Gandalara: Ara, I didn't get one yesterday, remember? :) JDipale: LOL Araiused: LOLOL Gandalara: Yay, BAH! Phx8: What do fantasy writers make per word for works published on the web? Araiused: He did but you left already RaechelMoon: Depends on the market. Araiused: Good question, Phx RaechelMoon: They could make nothing or a good deal of money. JDipale: Yeah, he has lots of stories online OWC Mars: What's a great deal? 3 cents a word like the pulps pay? RaechelMoon: Well 3 cents is the cut off point determined by SFWA and seems to be the holy grail of writing... Phx8: I'm more familiar with the sf markets... Phx8: Generally speaking, 3 cents a word for sf.... Araiused: There are SF stories on the web too right RaechelMoon: But really 3 cents a word isn't all that much...not with the way money goes these days. RaechelMoon: THere are all types of genre and non-genre stories on the web. Phx8: Is there a similar organization in fantasy writing? OWC Mars: Just a second here... OWC Mars: I have to run a promo over there. RaechelMoon: Some pro (3 cents or more per word) fantasy and sf markets are SciFiction, Strange Horizons, Ideomancer, etc. Athanor IX: SFWA covers fantasy these days RaechelMoon: Phx SFWA is for SF and F writers. JDipale: Astra? A Fine Host Plmckissic: Hi, Reg Araiused: yeah, Phx, Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America JDipale: hi Reg JDipale: =-O Gandalara: Flattery will get you places, JD :) Gandalara: Hi BLR! Phx8: That's TWO 'f's in there, Ar! Araiused: Yeah, Phx, it's SFFWA, I think RaechelMoon: No it's SFWA...the F does double duty. Phx8: lol, Ar, I didn't realize that. Has it always been that? Phx8: Roach, pardon me, I missed the first hour. How do you feel about the quality of fantasy on the web? Araiused: Ahso, Roach REGENTIC: Ok...thinking up an ontopic question..give me a sec Araiused: Oh my Araiused: Fasten your seatbelts! OWC Mars: (Reggie asking an ontopic question is a little scary) RaechelMoon: S'rigt Phx...I've pretty much come to the conclusion that it all depends on where you go. RaechelMoon: heh Phx8: ontology? JDipale: ontopic? Well, I guess there is a first time for everything! Araiused: REG's ontopics cause a lot of wind... RaechelMoon: should I batten the hatches? Phx8: He'll come out ontop Araiused: Like where does one go, Raechel? Araiused: :: tapping foot ::: Plmckissic: I like REG's ontopics, but I still prefer gin and topics! Araiused: Come on, REG Phx8: Reg has an idea, but it's dying of loneliness Araiused: Ontopics stirred and not shaken Araiused: LOL, Phx Plmckissic: whisper vermouth, Ara OWC Mars: Now, now, let's play nice campers. OWC Mars: When Reg is on topic he floors all of us. Athanor IX: My ideas went on strike foir better working conditions. Araiused: LOLOL RaechelMoon: Ara, well there's my site...there's a great site called ZineGuild which has links to several e-zines...letme get the url. RaechelMoon: Zine Guild: http://www.anotherealm.com/zineguild/ OWC Mars: Roach, I heard a nasty rumor that the zineguild may soon be defunct? RaechelMoon: It may be...I'm not really a member anymore since I had to close down Jackhammer E-zine and Dark Matter Chronicles...no more zines, no more membership. Phx8: Thanks Roach REGENTIC: Ok I got it RaechelMoon: The site is still up so as long as it is and the links work then you got a portal to some great zines. SciFiDog: ePublishing is intriguing to me. I think it will take off with readable screen tech. Phx8: That's what I wonder, SciFi. RaechelMoon: SciFiDog I think you're mostly right there...although we're already seeing it taking off somewhat because of handheld devices. REGENTIC: Ok, here it is REGENTIC: Are the methods for judging success different for an e-publishing venture as opposed to traditional publishing and if so how and is a lfailure as critical a matter for online ventures? OWC Mars: Now that IS a heavy duty question. OWC Mars: P and L Araiused: You know what I think, if etext could be integrated with graphics... Araiused: <---- FLOORED Patterner: Sci, I think it will take off more when there are Patterner: more good editors involved. There's a lot of Patterner: crap out there pretending to be books. RaechelMoon: Wow...that's a big question....I think that basically success is the same for e- and print publishing...money wise: Did you at least break even? Then you are a success. Plmckissic: WOW!!!! REG!!!!!! SciFiDog: (REG... I bet the bar is lower for success... since the paper, print and distribution costs factor in to traditional.) Plmckissic: You answer that, and you have your dissertation all sewn up! Araiused: LOLOL, Plmc Gandalara: LOL Plm RaechelMoon: However the stakes aren't quite so high for e-publishing because you don't have to put out so much money up front. RaechelMoon: For example... SciFiDog: and compatability of standards, e-rights, and such are the downside. They must be addressed. RaechelMoon: We currently spend $300.00 up front on each of our e-books. THat covers the cost of cover art, editing, copyright registration and the ISBN. Note that there are no printing cots. RaechelMoon: However...distribution for e-books is very shaky right now. So all the money saved on upfront costs has to be put into marketing to get the word ut to the people. OWC Mars: note that roach doesn't factor in the cost of her time for editing, production, packaging, and page content RaechelMoon: As an e-publisher I can't just publish an e-book and send it off to ingram's to be distributed to B&N and Amazon.com, etc. RaechelMoon: Oh yeah...I never count my time into any of this...I'm my own slave labor. heh. OWC Mars: OSHA would fine roach for her treatment of her employee RaechelMoon: ScifiDog> those issues are being addressed...but like with every stage in the publishing field it's being dealt with by individual companies and it'll take years to become standardized. RaechelMoon: I read this book a few weeks ago: A Short History of Printing. It was funny because when Guttenberg first introduced the printing press the Calligrapher's Unioins lobbied the government to outlaw it because it would cut into their profits. RaechelMoon: It just goes to show that all the angst that has come with e-publishing isn't new. REGENTIC: Since e-publishing is still a relatively new industry how many are primarily employed by it or it is a secondary occupation for most as of now? Bookwyrm1: Well If putting something online, on your own website can be considered copyrighted... Bookwyrm1: What distinguishes that from e-publishing? RaechelMoon: If you don't count the major publishing house's electronic departments, most e-publishers are small press, one man operations. SciFiDog: Yes Raechel. Like DVD-RW , Broadband, and everything else. Tho I heard in the broadBand area.. other countries are ahead of U.S. because the Gov. set standards and rules from the git go. Patterner: Editing, Book. RaechelMoon: Bookwyrm: Everything is copyrighted the moment it's put into a fixed form. THe minute you write your story down on paper it's copyrighted. RaechelMoon: Or save it on your word processor. Patterner: Most people don't write things anybody wants Patterner: to read. An editor will either reject it, or make Patterner: it more readable. SciFiDog: LOL and true P@! RaechelMoon: Ah...but then you aren't taking into consideration self-publishing and vanity publishing. Patterner: Plus, if you ever want to sell your story/novel, Patterner: you probably won't be able to if you put it up Patterner: online. Bookwyrm1: Well, making my stuff more readable would mean dumbing-down the vocab Patterner: Even putting more than a few graphs up to crit Patterner: may spoil First Rights. RaechelMoon: That's not necessarily true...depends on who you try to sell it to. OWC Mars: who Patterner: Sure, but most people like to get money for Patterner: writing. :) Patterner: Regular publishers won't touch it. SciFiDog: ( Bookwyrm is an elitist!) LOL RaechelMoon: Patterner> Not true. I know of several print editors and publishers who have said they'd consider stuff put online. Bookwyrm1: Not I Patterner: I don't know of any, and this comes up fairly Patterner: often. Who do you mean? RaechelMoon: To some print publishers it's a non-issue. It depends from publisher to publisher. Although I wouldn't suggest people put anything online on their website until it's been sold. Araiused: I think it's a trend of the future, Raechel. Bookwyrm1: But it is true. I write stuff which is generally above the 10th grade level. RaechelMoon: Scithers of Weird Tales came right out and said he didn't consider putting anything online as being published whether in an e-zine or not and so it didn't bother him. REGENTIC: Yea, I can se where they might be concerned with protecting their Return on Investment Patterner: Which print publishers? Patterner: George specifically said otherwise in rasfc Patterner: recently. We've been talking with him about Patterner: rejection letters. SciFiDog: altho.. for a writer.. having date/time from a public website could prove a copyright case vs. say, a studio movie of an idea you pitched and got nothing for when they made a knockoff. Araiused: George? Plmckissic: does George speak for ALL print publishers, Patt? RaechelMoon: Paterner> he may have changed his mind...this was two years ago at Chicon. Patterner: No, but I know most of the print publishers in Patterner: specfic. Bookwyrm1: George... Isn't that the typo demon? Patterner: LOL SciFiDog: ohmigod. gotta get a different sign on phrase! WOOF! Patterner: Yes, he could have. There's a lot more Patterner: published online now than then. Plmckissic: Really, Patt, you know All print publishers? Patterner: No, but I know most of the print publishers in Patterner: specfic. RaechelMoon: I don't think that's true...I think there's just as much published 2 years ago...it's just come more to the forefront. RaechelMoon: Again...it depends on the publisher. Bookwyrm1: Stephen King tried online publishing and charging folks for reading his efforts. Bookwyrm1: Anyone here read any of it? RaechelMoon: No I never got a chance. Patterner: Yes, I was still a volunteer then, and his board Patterner: was quite active with some people thinking they Patterner: were charged too much for what they got, and Patterner: others thinking it was wonderful. SciFiDog: no Book. But I read some JMS B5 online. Plmckissic: Who is it that you know, who has specifically stated that they would not touch e-published works. Bookwyrm1: No, it depends on the name recognition of the writer. Patterner: Tor, Baen, DAW, Golden Griffin, Old Earth, Patterner: more that aren't coming to mind. Patterner: If they can't get first North American rights on Patterner: it, most aren't going to buy it. If it's been on Patterner: the web, the first NA rights are lost. RaechelMoon: More than first NA rights are lost on the web. Patterner: Sure, but it's the first NA rights that most print Patterner: publishers are interested in. RaechelMoon: That whole NA, etc. rights don't even translate to the web Plmckissic: Really, they've all discussed this topic with you? Or have they printed this somewhere where we can look it up. Pretty interesting reading REGENTIC: Because they see that as the most profitable Patterner: Sure, look it up in Google. Patterner: They've also mentioned it in panels at cons. SciFiDog: It'll certainly take a long time for the field as a whole to shake out re: rights, author rights, standards, fair use, technology and readability, etc Patterner: Exactly, so when you post on the web, you give Patterner: it up. RaechelMoon: Reg: it's more complicated than that...NA rights, etc really is an outdated idea that print publishers have clung to. Araiused: Ah, Raechel, a new insight. Plmckissic: Way back then RaechelMoon: Again, it's more complicated. A lot of people use the blanket statement that first rights are lost when you post to the web because that's the easiest way to deal withit... Patterner: Well, it's law, according to the Berne Patterner: Convention. I'm not sure "clinging" to it is Patterner: exactly the right term. SciFiDog: Raech.. P@ is saying that NA is what the Publishers care about. Not that they are the only rights given up when web publishing. Athanor IX: Would an anthology publisher dismiss a story because it had been published on the Web? RaechelMoon: But really, if 3 people came to your site and read your story, have you really used up those rights? Or is it more like making 3 copies at Kinkos and giving it out to 3 ppl at the bus stop. RaechelMoon: Athanor> again it depends. SciFiDog: :-) Patterner: Now, there's been best-of anthologies that Patterner: published web-published stories, but those Patterner: stories were on edited sites, like Ellen's Patterner: SciFiction. RaechelMoon: Is the anthology a collection of reprints? Is a best of the best? Does it only want origial material. Araiused: And SCIFICTION are web-published stories. Patterner: But there's the potential for 3 million people to Patterner: have read it, and that's why they're hesitant to Patterner: take it on. RaechelMoon: Patterner: not true...Best of the Restlooks for and publishes works from other e-zines. Patterner: Yes, that's what I said, Ath. It was material Patterner: that Ellen Datlow, frequent Hugo nominee, Patterner: bought, edited, and paid for NA rights. Patterner: Best of the Rest is an e-zine, not a print zine, Patterner: isn't it/ Patterner: ? Athanor IX: I was thinking of one of the year's best type anthos. RaechelMoon: It's a print antho. Plmckissic: Same at the bus stop, Patt. Joe give the copy to his Auntie Sue...who gives it to her neighbor...who reads it to her kids...who show it to a teacher... Patterner: It takes a long time to get to 3 million that way, Patterner: Plm. Plmckissic: 3 million people later.... RaechelMoon: Like I said, they use the blanket "because it was posted it's lost the rights" because that's easiest. Heck I use it myself when I write up my guidelines. RaechelMoon: But using a blanket statement isn't the best way to go about things. Plmckissic: What does time have to do with the concept you're discussing? Patterner: Ath, the one with Kelly Link's story from Patterner: SciFiction is what I'm thinking of -- I think it's Patterner: in Hartwell's, not Dozois'. Patterner: The book could have been published and Patterner: reached its intended audience by the time the Patterner: last of the 3 million reads it. Plmckissic: You lose your NA rights because 3 million people can read it faster? Patterner: From your viewpoint, but not from most print Patterner: publisher's viewpoint. Patterner: Yep. RaechelMoon: Which is why I stick with the comment "It Depends." It's not a cut and dried answer that some people want to hear, but it's a more honest one than telling someone they're screwed if they place their work online. Araiused: Plmc, maybe the law is in need of an overhaul :) Athanor IX: Starting with repeal of the DMCA. Plmckissic: The law states how much time can be involved? I find that hard to believe Araiused: DMA? Araiused: DMCA RaechelMoon: Alrighty guys I promised myself that I'd get some slush read tonight so I'm gonna call it a night. RaechelMoon: Thanks for stopping in. OWC Mars: Thank YOU Raechel. RaechelMoon: Everyone have a good night. Patterner: See y'all tomorrow! Araiused: Thanks, Mars OnlineHost: Raven Loches has entered the room. Gandalara: Wow. Overtime pay!!! OWC Mars: lol... is it really that late! Raven Loches: hello all Gandalara: scrolling up to see what I missed .... REGENTIC: Ok, that was my totally ontopic once a month chat ;) OWC Mars: LOLOLOLOL. OWC Mars: Folks...before I whip out of here tonight... OWC Mars: I feel compelled to hit you with one more macro. Gandalara: Once a month??? Once every 2 years is more like it :) OWC Mars: FRIDAY, JAN 18, 9pm-11pm ET -- BAM! ZIFF! TWIRL! When physics OWC Mars: prevents you from travelling through solid rock, it's a good thing animated SF is there to OWC Mars: break a few rules. Join HOST EBK Mystik as SF General dives into the whiz-bang world OWC Mars: of Cartoon SF! OWC Mars: THEN OWC Mars: FRIDAY, JAN 18, 10pm-12am ET -- We had a rash of SF books in the OWC Mars: 1970's, portraying doom and gloom for the future - what happened? Hey, I liked those OWC Mars: books! Where are the untold millions of people, the unbreathable air and undrinkable OWC Mars: water? Have the polluters moved on to greener pastures? Join HOST EBK Astra for a OWC Mars: clean chat about Environmental SF! OWC Mars: Hope to see you all tomorrow and then again soon! Plmckissic: Nite, ALL! Thank you, Mars! Araiused: See ya, Mars! OWC Mars: Thank you ALL for a great chat! OnlineHost: Darkomik77 has entered the room. Raven Loches: guess I came in at the end huh? REGENTIC: Night Mars, Thanks Araiused: Hey,Dark Araiused: yeah, Raven Darkomik77: yo Gandalara: Thanks, Mars! Araiused: Time to say goodnight, Dark OWC Mars: Yes, Raven...but the log should be up soon! OWC Mars: Folks...please feel free to stay and chat.. Gandalara: Night Plm! Raven Loches: thanks OWC Mars: But I'm afraid this old bag of bones has to jump on the broom and fly outa here. Araiused: Broom where is broom? Darkomik77: don't crash into the wall okay, mars? OWC Mars: Again, thanks for a very intense and on topic chat this evening! Araiused: Next time I'll hide the broom OWC Mars: LOLOL. OWC Mars: :::leeps on broom::: OWC Mars: ::leeps off broom and opens window::: OWC Mars: :::jumps back on broom and whips outa here:::: OWC Mars: GoodniIIIIiiiiiiiiight! Darkomik77: (watches her crashe into a brick wall outside) Log Entry: Other Worlds SF Chat [Members - 8] 1/17/02 11:17 PM