Log Entry: Other Worlds SF Chat [Members - 1] 2/24/2003 08:42 PM OnlineHost: To find more book chats and message boards check out Keyword:TABK and Keyword: Sci-Fi. Log Entry: Other Worlds SF Chat [Members - 1] 2/24/2003 08:42 PM Log Entry: Other Worlds SF Chat [Members - 2] 2/24/2003 08:55 PM HOST RL Marz: ***The opinions expressed in this file are not necessarily those of the Other*Worlds*Cafe or America Online.*** OnlineHost: Djinger has entered the room. HOST RL Marz: Hi Pat! Djinger: Ah, THIS is the right one! HOST RL Marz: Tonight we're talking with Patrick Welch, author of several fantasy novels which are available in electronic format... and soon in paper. Website: http://www.sff.net/people/patrickw/ Djinger: Was at the other one for a few moments. HOST RL Marz: Dave is already in the next room...but I've not turned on Ninlila yet. HOST RL Marz: Ah! Djinger: How do you do that? Whisper sweet things in her ear? HOST RL Marz: Was getting ready to start looking for you in about one minute. HOST RL Marz: LOLOL...no... I hit the button. Log Entry: Other Worlds SF Chat [Members - 3] 2/24/2003 09:00 PM Djinger: Well, we all like our buttons pushed. HOST RL Marz: But you'll notice when you first enter the room... HOST RL Marz: that there's a couple of hypertext links in the chatroom. HOST RL Marz: These confuse Ninlila no end. HOST RL Marz: So I have to get a little text into the screen first before starting the program up. HOST RL Marz: And... I believe we're there. HOST RL Marz: So just a second. HOST RL Marz: Okay...here we go. HOST RL Marz: ***The opinions expressed in this file are not necessarily those of the Other*Worlds*Cafe or America Online.*** HOST RL Marz: Tonight we're talking with Patrick Welch, author of several fantasy novels which are available in electronic format... and soon in paper. Website: http://www.sff.net/people/patrickw/ Djinger: hmm hmm. Sorry I have't been by on Tuesdays but I'm teaching class on Tuesdays til about 10 HOST RL Marz: I'll let Barry Know Pat. Djinger: And the crowd goes wild! HOST RL Marz: LOL HOST RL Marz: As I said, the first hour can be a bit sparse here.... but folks will start rolling in over the next few minutes. Djinger: So I do have some good news. Both Westchester Station and The Casebook of Doakes and Haig are now in trade paperback! HOST RL Marz: Excellent!. Djinger: THey both look pretty good. HOST RL Marz: Pat, what I'm going to do is basically run down the list on your website, maybe throw up some excerpts right quick... HOST RL Marz: and ask you about the basic story, what got you started on it etc. Djinger: we can do that. HOST RL Marz: And we'll also be asking basic writing questions throughout the night. HOST RL Marz: Can you stay more than one hour? Djinger: that's cool as well. Stay as long as you can stand it. Have plenty of beer here. HOST RL Marz: Excellent. Djinger: So what's new in Chi Town? HOST RL Marz: Well, why don't we poke Dave over in the Cybling chat room.... DAVE... Got anything to say to Pat? Send JaniceMars a PM so she can grab it and send it here. HOST RL Marz: It's cold Pat. HOST RL Marz: Cold and snowy. OnlineHost: Girlgalad has entered the room. Djinger: Here too. about 10 inches of snow over past couple days. HOST RL Marz: Hiya Girlgalad Djinger: Hey, Gg HOST RL Marz: Tonight we're talking with Patrick Welch, author of several fantasy novels which are available in electronic format... and soon in paper. Website: http://www.sff.net/people/patrickw/ Girlgalad: hi OnlineHost: Seanandmag has entered the room. Girlgalad: just checkin thiongs out Seanandmag: ah sci-fi people HOST RL Marz: Hiya Sean...we're talking with Patrick Welch tonight! Girlgalad: g2g Djinger: Are you wearing a thong, GG? OnlineHost: Girlgalad has left the room. HOST RL Marz: Djinger! Seanandmag: And that is ? Djinger: An attempted writer. HOST RL Marz: Patrick aka Djinger is a fantasy author... Seanandmag: ok HOST RL Marz: with several books out in electroniic format and some in trade paperback now. HOST RL Marz: Sean, is this your first visit to the O*W*C? Seanandmag: No, was here 3 nights ago, that was the first time though HOST RL Marz: Cool. Then you'll enjoy our chats. HOST RL Marz: I'm going to get things going here Pat... Seanandmag: I sure hope so, where are you all located Djinger: otay HOST RL Marz: <== Chicago OnlineHost: Wilypony has entered the room. Djinger: Toledo Seanandmag: I am from St. Louis area HOST RL Marz: Pat...why fantasy. What was it that first turned you onto fantasy as the genre in which you wanted to write? HOST RL Marz: Tonight we're talking with Patrick Welch, author of several fantasy novels which are available in electronic format... and soon in paper. Website: http://www.sff.net/people/patrickw/ OnlineHost: Wilypony has left the room. Djinger: I grew up with the classics; Heinlein, Asimov, Anderson and so forth. But when I started writing, I realized my science background is pretty weak. Fantasy allows more freedom in many ways. OnlineHost: TAMirabile has entered the room. HOST RL Marz: Hello TAMirabile we're chatting with Patrick Welch, author of several fantasy novels now available in electronic format and soon to be available in print! HOST RL Marz: Fantasy allows more freedom in many ways? How so? TAMirabile: Hi, Marz! Djinger! Sean! Seanandmag: cool, but with asimov he did have a deep back ground in science Seanandmag: Hi OnlineHost: E cat s has entered the room. TAMirabile: Hi, E ltns E cat s: [] HOST RL Marz: Tonight we're talking with Patrick Welch, author of several fantasy novels which are available in electronic format... and soon in paper. Website: http://www.sff.net/people/patrickw/ Djinger: Well, you can certainly invent more in terms of worlds, societies and so forth. And magic certainly eliminates the "need" for real scientific explanations. TAMirabile: But doesn't magic need its own internal rules? HOST RL Marz: Okay...but you did consider writing science fiction for a time? Seanandmag: Could you have read more of asimov's non-fiction stuff Djinger: Although you still have to establish "laws" if you will and stay consistant throughout. Seanandmag: then gone from there Djinger: I have written some science fiction, short stories. But my focus there was more on the characters than the science. Seanandmag: Not that fantasy is bad mind you Seanandmag: just asking questions HOST RL Marz: That's what we're here to do Sean! HOST RL Marz: Ask questions! Seanandmag: And why I am here Djinger: Well, Sean, Asimov wrote so much that trying to stay up with everything he wrote would be a full-time job. E cat s: Are we IMing questions to the host? Seanandmag: lol Seanandmag: so true HOST RL Marz: No, E...we're chatting directly with Djinger/Patrick Welch. TAMirabile: Asimov is supposed to be the only writer to have a book in every category of the Dewey Decimal system E cat s: Thanks Seanandmag: I think it was way over 600 HOST RL Marz: Let's just try not to overwhelm him with questions is all. TAMirabile: He seems to be holding his own pretty well, Marz Djinger: Actually his "Widow" (?) series of short stories had a great influence on some of my work, specifically The Casebook of Doakes and Haig. Log Entry: Other Worlds SF Chat [Members - 6] 2/24/2003 09:15 PM Seanandmag: I stilll need to read those Seanandmag: I mainly stuck with robot and foundation series myself HOST RL Marz: Cool...Asimov's short mysteries influenced Doaks and Haig? Djinger: My writing was severely influenced by the sf/fantasy writers of the 50's through mid 60's. Except for Tolkein. HOST RL Marz: Okay...The Casebook of Doakes and Haig. That's an anthology of short stories, isn't it? Djinger: Yes, Jan. Not heavily, but I had them somewhat in mind when I wrote the series. And Clarke's Tales of the White Hart is another. HOST RL Marz: Oh I *love* White Hart. Djinger: Yes, Jan, it is. And now available in paperback! (plug plug) OnlineHost: Gaea BAV has entered the room. HOST RL Marz: Hello Gaea BAV we're chatting with Patrick Welch, author of several fantasy novels now available in electronic format and soon to be available in print! HOST RL Marz: LOL...now The Casebook of Doakes and Haig is an alternate history right? Where does the history diverge? Djinger: And, to be honest, they also influenced, peripherally, Westchester Station. HOST RL Marz: Or would you call it an alternate reality. Djinger: Let's see. Well, the stories start in the late 1940's, but there are no telephones, cars or trains. Djinger: Alternate reality for sure. OnlineHost: Seanandmag has left the room. OnlineHost: Gaea BAV has left the room. HOST RL Marz: And where does their history and ours diverge? Djinger: Waaaay back. America is still a colony for one. The native Americans are still somewhat in charge. Djinger: And there are spirits, specifically leprechauns, involved. HOST RL Marz: Ah interesting... and Doakes and Haig are a couple of amateur detectives... one human and one a leprachaun? E cat s: I'm really beat. Time for me to leave. Thanks, Marz!! Nice meeting you, Patrick; all the best luck! Night, everyone [] Djinger: Exactly, Jan. Although I totally rewrote the leprechaun mythology. Or most of it. Djinger: Niters, E cats. HOST RL Marz: Sorry you couldn't stay E. Be seeing you! OnlineHost: E cat s has left the room. HOST RL Marz: Rewrote leprechaun mythology? LOL. Can you give us a little taste of what you changed? Djinger: Well, Haig can transform instantly into a human. The Blarney Stone allows you to understand any spoken language. The "clothes" a leprechaun wears are really him. OnlineHost: PMSallume has entered the room. HOST RL Marz: Hello PMSallume we're chatting with Patrick Welch, author of several fantasy novels now available in electronic format and soon to be available in print! HOST RL Marz: Cool. How difficult was it to maintain these changed rules throughout the series of stories Djinger: They can open any lock. Djinger: Actually I was adding some as the series developed. I developed the world as I wrote the various stories. Which, actually, is what you do in a book in any event. PMSallume: (need to read the schedule more often) HOST RL Marz: Patrick how many stories comprise The Casebook of Doakes and Haig? Djinger: The book has 5 stories and a novellette. Since then I've written 3 more. HOST RL Marz: Ah! So the original 5 are included in the ebook from Twighlight Times? Will the new stories be in the print edition? Djinger: Two were published in the late, lamented Alternate Realities. HOST RL Marz: And when can we see that print edition? HOST RL Marz: Ah. Djinger: Not sure yet, Jan. Don't have enough for another book. But the original is now available in trade paperback as well as CD and download. HOST RL Marz: Cool...and the trade paperback is also available from Twightlight Times? Djinger: Yes it is. HOST RL Marz: Excellent. Which other of your books is not in Trade Paperback? HOST RL Marz: Pardon me NOW in Trade Paperback. HOST RL Marz: Gonna have to trim these fingernails. Djinger: Quite a few. The Thirteenth Magician will eventually be in paperback. Before/Beyond, Brendell and The Body Shop, from Double-Dragon e-books are still in CD/download form. Djinger: Westchester Station is also available in paperback. HOST RL Marz: Oh goody. Djinger: My newest, Cynnador, will exclusively be as a download for the foreseeable future. HOST RL Marz: Let's talk a little bit about Westchester. Djinger: okay, Westchester it is. Djinger: Westchester is very experimental in form. Some reviewers didn't appreciate it, unfortunately. HOST RL Marz: Westchester Station. An intertimensional train depot lying somewhere between Chicago and HOST RL Marz: eternity. I, Robert Winstead, was brought here by someone I did not know for some purpose I had HOST RL Marz: yet to discover. But I also knew that only by fulfilling that purpose would I be allowed to HOST RL Marz: leave...assuming I survived the journey. Somewhere among the hallways and denizens of this HOST RL Marz: haunted environment I would find the answer. I HOST RL Marz: That's a blurb from your website. HOST RL Marz: Why do you consider it experimental Patrick? Djinger: yes, it is. Djinger: It was written as an interconnected series of short stories/vignettes. Westchester essentially serves as a frame for what happens. Djinger: The "White Hart" influence is particularly strong here. Log Entry: Other Worlds SF Chat [Members - 5] 2/24/2003 09:30 PM HOST RL Marz: Okay... I was reading and excerpt on your site from one of the vignettes...when Winstead is accosted by the pair of "mental" gymnists. HOST RL Marz: LOL, was good stuff Pat. Djinger: merci Djinger: The form of WS allowed me to do quite a few things that I don't think would be practical in a more standard format. HOST RL Marz: This gentleman, Winstead, is snowed in at O'Hare? And is taken by taxi to a bizarre train station located somewhere in Chicago? Djinger: Yes, Jan, good memory. Although WS is timeless and spaceless if you will. HOST RL Marz: And his first encounter is with a woman trying to get back into the station ... Djinger: Yes. She had been there once and was not allowed back in again. Which he learns later. HOST RL Marz: Apparently WestChester is a one trip journey and if you don't like where you end up, oh well? Djinger: Well, I wouldn't go quite that far. For some of the characters, it is truly their home. And you don't necessarily have to stay there. HOST RL Marz: Folks...please feel free to jump in an ask questions. I don't have a monopoly on Patrick here. PMSallume: I have a question that I'd like to ask Djinger: shoot PMSallume: Let's see if I can word this coherently....how has posting your work on the net changed anything? Djinger: It has helped me make some sales. It has helped me get a LITTLE bit of recognition. It has helped me get my work out there and made me a soupcon of income. PMSallume: So it's a bit easier getting known when there's a bigger faster audience to attract? HOST RL Marz: Patrick...you've not published *every little bit* on the web, right? Only bits and pieces? Djinger: Breaking into traditional print is a b***h. Of course that's where I want to end up. HOST RL Marz: And you have to the extent that you now have two trade paperbacks available from two different small presses. Djinger: No, Jan, not "every little bit." For example, I did not post all of Cynnador on my web site. Perhaps about a 3'rd. PMSallume: So I've heard. There used to be a website where authors of all kinds could post their work, copyrighted to them and get people to read what they had. Sadly it's gone HOST RL Marz: Which website was that PMS? Djinger: Well, PM, I view the web as the successor to the fan press of the 50's. Which is where Ellison etc. got their starts. There are PLENTY of e-zines available now, and some do pay. And, of course, not all print mags pay. PMSallume: I think it was WritingTree...last I heard they ran out of money... PMSallume: Either Writing or ReadingTree..but I checked Readingtree and it's an educational site now mostly for schools. HOST RL Marz: Unfortunately this does happen with some of the smaller presses, whether they are electronic or pulp. It's a tough business. HOST RL Marz: Patrick, you did get a bit of a start publishing stories in electronic 'zines. Which? Djinger: Very tough. A friend of mine has spent a year trying to get an agent. HOST RL Marz: Any we might know of or that are still in publicatin? HOST RL Marz: publication...sorry. Djinger: E-zines? Eternity, Orphic Chronicle, Jackhammer, Twilight Times, Tavernwench Journal, Death Grip, Bloodfetish, the Haunted, Titan, Pegasus Journal, and I know I'm forgetting some. OnlineHost: Gaea BAV has entered the room. HOST RL Marz: Okay and Know that Eternity and Jackhammer are no longer being published...though Roach of Jackhammer is doing ebooks. HOST RL Marz: Hello Gaea BAV we're chatting with Patrick Welch, author of several fantasy novels now available in electronic format and soon to be available in print! Djinger: My web site has links to some of the stories still archived and available. OnlineHost: Gaea BAV has left the room. PMSallume: Oh cool....glad I sat in on this. I always wondered if there were any places like that on line but never knew where to look. Djinger: Alternate Realities seems to have bit the dust as well. A shame. HOST RL Marz: You can find links on Patrick's site, for sure. http://www.sff.net/people/patrickw/ as well as excerpts of his fine stories. TAMirabile: I'm getting way too fuzzy here. Good night. Thank you, Patrick! Thanks Marz!! HOST RL Marz: Patrick... you actually have stories "Twisters" up, just for your visitors as well. Djinger: I think most e-zines last only a few years and then either the editors run out of energy or money. PMSallume: got it...(love those shameless plugs) HOST RL Marz: Later Tam. Djinger: Niters, Tam OnlineHost: TAMirabile has left the room. Djinger: Yes I do, Jan. Have to update that sucker, though. HOST RL Marz: What made you set up an area for stories just for you website visitors? HOST RL Marz: Are these stories you never plan to submit to anyone, or just little thankyous that don't fit into any particular genre? Djinger: well, I was hoping to encourage people to stop by and sit a spell. And I make the stories purposely short. My site is hardly state of the art. HOST RL Marz: How short? Djinger: Kinda the latter I guess, Jan. I think everyone has been humorous in one extant or the other. Djinger: Less than 1,000 words seems to be about right for those. And I can barely clear my throat in 1,000 words. HOST RL Marz: Humor seems to be a big part of your work ... you don't see that much lightheartedness in a lot of fantasy Patrick. What steered you in that direction? PMSallume: It's the age of short-attention-span-theater.. Djinger: I find it hard to take everything seriously. Although WS doesn't have much humor in it. Although I think my first book, the Thirteenth Magician, has humor even though it is serious dark fantasy. And the Body Shop is a black comed Djinger: y Log Entry: Other Worlds SF Chat [Members - 4] 2/24/2003 09:45 PM HOST RL Marz: I want to talk a bit about Body Shop in just a minute Patrick... but first... Djinger: On the other hand, Doakes and Haig and Brendell are definitely light fantasy. HOST RL Marz: 1000 words... that's about 4 typewritten pages... in other words a short-short ... PMSallume: A vignette? Djinger: yeah, that sounds about right. HOST RL Marz: a format that has sadly disappeared from print mags. HOST RL Marz: Do you think that the web may resurrect this honorable and difficult format? Djinger: I find them hard to write usually. And I CANNOT write flash fiction. HOST RL Marz: Flash Fiction? What's that? Djinger: I think it already has, Jan. A lot of e-zines have short shorts. Even flash (under 250 words) fiction. HOST RL Marz: Oh jeez... so "Flash Fiction" is the new name for extreeme short shorts. PMSallume: Wow...going to have to go back and check the word count on my 'short' story Djinger: That' HOST RL Marz: Stories that used to come under the feghoot classification, and yet are not necessarily feghoots. Djinger: oops. THat's my take on it. Again, I can't begin to write it. Djinger: Not necessarily feghoots, either, Jan. At least I don't believe so. HOST RL Marz: Excellent... thanks. HOST RL Marz: Okay... you say that the Body Shop is dark humor...let me put up a paragraph from your excerpt here ... Djinger: Planet Relish used to run Feghoots. NOt sure if they are now. HOST RL Marz: Graff Pauley paused and searched for the source. He found the talking head perched on a HOST RL Marz: bookrack to his right, pressed firmly between tomes on herbal medicine and hydraulics. The head HOST RL Marz: was from an older man, not one of his. Pauley knew an air pump was connected to it so the larynx HOST RL Marz: would function. How Edgerton maintained them otherwise he had no idea and didn’t want one. HOST RL Marz: "How ya doing?" he nodded. HOST RL Marz: So in the beginning of The Body Shop, you have a bodyless head... PMSallume: ummmm....interesting HOST RL Marz: functioning as the door bell on a shop. HOST RL Marz: Graff is going to the shop to buy or sell a body part? Djinger: Sell. He's a procurer for Edgerton. HOST RL Marz: And there's a smart business in spare arms and legs in this world, Patrick? Djinger: Yes, although most are for Edgerton's use. He keeps the heads alive, then promises to make bodies for them. At a severe price. Djinger: If you can't pay, you remain a head in his collection. HOST RL Marz: Ahhhhhhh! Indentured servitude of an extremely severe nature. PMSallume: Nasty piece of business that....yeeeesh. Djinger: Exactly, Jan. HOST RL Marz: Pat... it says on your site that this ebook will be availabe from Double Dragon in Mid March... are you still on schedule for that, and will it be in ebook format? Djinger: Darn, gotta update my site. Body Shop has been out for nearly a year. HOST RL Marz: Well, shet my mouth. And yes, you should, lol! PMSallume: whoops! lol! Djinger: In it's second incarnation. Originally it was from Crossroads, but we all know THAT story. The new collection has been expanded, however. HOST RL Marz: YOur site just says Mid-March...no 01, or 02. HOST RL Marz: You expanded it? In what way Patrick? Djinger: Yep, afraid you're right. Me bad. Djinger: I added new stories, cut out some of the dross. I think there's about 20 in there now. HOST RL Marz: lol...time is a premium Patrick. I know. HOST RL Marz: Ah.... so Body Shop is also a collection of stories? An Anthology? Djinger: Later, better stuff that appeared in Death Grip, Shyflower's Garden, the Haunted and others. PMSallume: Do you have anyone that does secondary editing on your stories or do you trust your judgement? Djinger: Technically a collection. Dark Echo handed me my head for confusing the two. HOST RL Marz: LOLOL, well at least you got it back. Djinger: PM, all my books are edited by the respective publishers. Djinger: And I didn't have to pay Edgerton to get it back, Jan! PMSallume: Ah....LOL HOST RL Marz: Djinger, Patrick, I *always* confuse the two. What is the difference? Djinger: A collection is by one author, an anthology by many. Djinger: Or so I've been told. PMSallume: Really? I always thought it was the other way around? HOST RL Marz: Okay. I'll have to figure out a mnemonic to remember that... like stalagtites and stalamites, apogee and perigee Djinger: Not according to Steve Lazarowitz, Dark Echo/Paula Guren and others PMSallume: okay...my mistake...not quite up to speed on writing terminology. HOST RL Marz: Patrick, short stories are your forte and obviously your chosen format. What lead you to start writing short fiction as opposed to novel length sagas? Djinger: I don't see why it's a big deal, but I haven't studied that area. HOST RL Marz: Djinger/Patrick... I know people who try and convict writers for treason for the misplacement of a semi-colon... Djinger: Well, Jan, writing a book is quite time consuming. A story can be finished in days or weeks. Of course, getting either published is the challenge. HOST RL Marz: so I don't question it when someone gets their undies in a bunch over something like colllection or anthology... I just say. Okay. Djinger: Yeah, Jan. I've been hammered a few times as well. And one reviewer in particular who tried to compare WS to Tolkein/epic fantasy. WS is NOT epic fantasy and there is no attempt to be. HOST RL Marz: So your choice of length in your stories is related directly to the amount of time you can spend at your word processor? Djinger: No, to what length I feel is necessary to tell the story. I don't put a time limit on when I have to finish something. PMSallume: Too true. But some writers have a longer range thinking for writing and can produce big novel. I have what I consider sporadic creative genius. Lasts just long enough to produce a short story. Log Entry: Other Worlds SF Chat [Members - 4] 2/24/2003 10:00 PM OnlineHost: Athanor IX has entered the room. HOST RL Marz: Hello Athanor IX we're chatting with Patrick Welch, author of several fantasy novels now available in electronic format and soon to be available in print! Athanor IX: Hi. HOST RL Marz: Well that leads me to another "writing" question.... PMSallume: hey Ath HOST RL Marz: And Ath... feel free to jump in and ask questions...this is an open interview. Djinger: Body Shop, for one, started as a 5,000 word story. But when I got there I realized it was nowhere finished. Grew like a mushroom to 40,000 words. Djinger: Cynnador started as a 300 word exercise for a workshop. Became a 60,000 word novel. HOST RL Marz: You know Djinger/Patrick ... a lot of authors during the golden age peddled collections as novels. HOST RL Marz: As a matter of fact, I think a lot of Stephen King's early work like The Stand and others... Djinger: And lot's of books were short. Space Merchants and Greener Than You Think aren't even 50,000 words I would bet. HOST RL Marz: looked a lot like Novelettes that had been hacked apart at the chapter line. OnlineHost: Araiused has entered the room. HOST RL Marz: Hello Araiused we're chatting with Patrick Welch, author of several fantasy novels now available in electronic format and soon to be available in print! Araiused: 'Allo PMSallume: Hey Ara Djinger: 'allo HOST RL Marz: So is the only thing that's keeping you from marketing your books as novels right off the bat, the fact that some of the stories have been previously published in online ezines? Djinger: And the good ol' Ace Double Novels often just combined several novelletes as book. HOST RL Marz: And I loved those too Pat. Djinger: Well, Jan, not quite. Thirteenth Magician didn't appear as short stories. HOST RL Marz: That was your first book, correct? Djinger: Yes it was, Jan. Something I had in my craw so to speak since I was in college. HOST RL Marz: Okay...so far we've talked about The Casebook of Doakes and Haig and Westchester Station HOST RL Marz: which are both available in trade paperback and ebook format... and The Body Shop....and The HOST RL Marz: Thirteenth Magician. These are all books that have been published one way or another previously. HOST RL Marz: And by the way folks...you can read excerpts of most of Patrick's fiction at his website at: http://www.sff.net/people/patrickw/ Djinger: The Casebook was first published by Twilight as a collections. The others had been from Crossroads or Dark Star. Djinger: Before/Beyond also was from Dark Star. But the revised collection has been expanded with new stories as well. HOST RL Marz: And that is now also available from Double Dragon. HOST RL Marz: Ebook? And is there any talk of taking it to trade paper as well? Djinger: Cynnador was only available on my web site. Brendell includes stories that had appeared elsewhere. Djinger: I think everything at Twilight will eventually be in trade paperback, Jan. I'm considering having Brendell and Body Shop going to paperback as well. HOST RL Marz: Before/Beyond... how are the stories in this collection different from your other work? HOST RL Marz: BTW, folks. I don't have a monopoly on Djinger/Patrick. If you have a question for him, just jump right in. As long as we don't innundate him, we're fine. Djinger: Before/Beyond is a collection of my science fiction and fantasy stories. No horror, unlike Body Shop. No Brendell stories either, as they have their own collection. OnlineHost: STARMOM79 has entered the room. HOST RL Marz: Hello STARMOM79 we're chatting with Patrick Welch, author of several fantasy novels now available in electronic format and soon to be available in print! OnlineHost: T83BIRD has entered the room. HOST RL Marz: Hello T83BIRD we're chatting with Patrick Welch, author of several fantasy novels now available in electronic format and soon to be available in print! HOST RL Marz: Ah, so there *are* stories out there from you that you'd class as Science Fiction? STARMOM79: Hello everyone STARMOM79: Hi, T T83BIRD: Hi, Everyone. Djinger: The original Before/Beyond was a Dream Realm finalist. The updated one includes newer stories written and/or published over the past 2 years. HOST RL Marz: Folks, feel free to ask Djinger/Patrick Welch questions. It's an informal Koffee Klatch style chat tonight. Djinger: Yes, science fiction on occasion, but not hard science for sure. Araiused: Hi, STAR, T! HOST RL Marz: How would you class your science fiction then? Soft? Science Fantasy? PMSallume: Going back for a second, it sounds like the ezines are subdivisions of book publishers...or are they independent 'small press' organizations? (Hey you two) Djinger: E-zines should be considered small press. Besides Twilight Times, I'm not aware of any e-zines associated specifically with book publishers unless they're small press, PM T83BIRD: thx Ara, PMS T83BIRD: afk HOST RL Marz: Like Jackhammer was a part of Eggplant-Productions, while it lasted. Djinger: My science fiction, I suppose, would be considered "soft." Djinger: Exactly, Jan. PMSallume: Ahh... HOST RL Marz: Eggplant is still extant, but Jackhammer is no longer in publication. Djinger: And Roach didn't get into books per se until close to the end. HOST RL Marz: Running an ezine is a lot more work than it would appear. Not only do you have to edit it.. you have to be the advertising sales force as well. Djinger: There ARE some e-zines that did/do publish complete books, but since the ones I knew of didn't pay, I didn't play. HOST RL Marz: Djinger/Pat ... so you've limited your publishing online to either your website or PAYING markets? How hard are they to find...paying markets online. STARMOM79: afk PMSallume: And how hard are they to get into? Araiused: Extant? Djinger: Not limited specifically to paying, Jan. But I'm in no hurry to give an entire book away. I can deal with a story to help promote my work. HOST RL Marz: As opposed to extinct. T83BIRD: bak needed to assist spouse Bonnie Djinger: Well, Predators and Editors has a list of e-zines. THe Market List. There are other lists of course. And I wouldn't purposely supmit to an e-zine that accepts Djinger: EVERYTHING. HOST RL Marz: Okay... so you would consider using a short story as a means of promoting yourself, and wouldn't mind giving up first world publication rights sales if it furthers your exposure... on a short story at least. Log Entry: Other Worlds SF Chat [Members - 8] 2/24/2003 10:15 PM OnlineHost: Darkomik77 has entered the room. Djinger: First electronic publishing rights only. Yes. And most give all rights back after 3/6 months. HOST RL Marz: Hello Darkomik77 we're chatting with Patrick Welch, author of several fantasy novels now available in electronic format and soon to be available in print! Araiused: Hi, Dark PMSallume: Hey Dark T83BIRD: Hey dark HOST RL Marz: Okay...let's talk a little about your new work, Patrick/Djinger. Darkomik77: yo Djinger: And when you consider the cost of postage etc. and STILL many print mags don't pay anyway... HOST RL Marz: Cynnador...what is this story about? Djinger: Cynnador takes place in a barbarian world. Cynnador itself is a bazaar where magic doesn't quite work. HOST RL Marz: A magic free or magic-warped zone? Djinger: Like WS, the bazaar initially serves as a frame, but as the characters are introduced and interact, the conflicts and story evolve. Djinger: More magic-warped, Jan. WHY it is that way is part of the mystery of the story. HOST RL Marz: Cool. And are you following your past format here? Vignettes and short stories collected around one or two central characters? Djinger: Only in the beginning, Jan. The story becomes more linear once the true story begins, about 10,000 words into the book. HOST RL Marz: Oh...so you are moving into the longer format then. Djinger: By then all the main characters have been introduced. Djinger: In this one, yes. Although it's still under 70,000 words. HOST RL Marz: You say that you've posted about 1/3 of the story online. Is it going to reach 1/3, is it AT 1/3 now, and will it all eventually be available online? T83BIRD: That format was used long ago by Balzac in PERE GORIOT. HOST RL Marz: Then I'd say it's a time tested way of telling a story, 8^D Djinger: THere will be no more postings on my web site, although Infinity Plus will be running an excerpt in a few weeks. The book should be available by then. All it needs is the cover art. Djinger: Hey, TBird, I never said I wasn't a thief! Djinger: Or perhaps "inspired." PMSallume: Style is one thing, content is another HOST RL Marz: Ah! So Cynnador is complete then, but we can still get a taste of it on your website. You'll be offering it in electronic format only? T83BIRD: Dj, no *theft* implied. Just pointing out what Jan amplified -- a time-tested format. Araiused: Intriguing title. Where do you get the names from? Djinger: I suspect it will be eventually available in paperback. Lida at Twilight is doing that with all her books I believe. Djinger: Araiused (better spell that right), I wish I had an easy answer for that. I think names are important, especially in fantasy. But for some reason I usually can make them up without too much difficulty. HOST RL Marz: Djinger/Patrick, you don't seem to chunk your fantasy names up with a lot of apostrophes... or have I just not read enough of your work yet? Araiused: In SF too. Did you ever read those names Aldiss gave to his characters in the Helliconia trilogy? Djinger: IN Cynnador, I do have Pa'ak. But " and so forth can be a pain to type. HOST RL Marz: LOL, well I've got to admit that I've never understood the plethora of apostrophes in a lot of names. Djinger: Of course you can do a universal edit/replace I suppose.... Araiused: It just give an outlandish flavour, Marz HOST RL Marz: And I do appreciate being able to read a character's name without tripping over the punctuation. PMSallume: I'm all for simple names. Djinger: Glad I don't write in French or Spanish. Araiused: ' signifies a pause.. HOST RL Marz: I always thought it might mean a glottal stop. HOST RL Marz: Or some such strangulation type sound. PMSallume: Depends on what the author intended Araiused: Yeah, stop, pause [] T83BIRD: Marz, using apostrophes could be an attempt to create an effect of exotic, even arcane diction. Djinger: Or maybe the author thought it looked cute. Must be great fun for the proofreader. HOST RL Marz: Indeed. Darkomik77: look at the Klingon names, they're loaded with apostrophes Araiused: They speak it that way too, Dark OnlineHost: DerHexer has entered the room. Araiused: Hey, Der HOST RL Marz: Hello DerHexer we're chatting with Patrick Welch, author of several fantasy novels now available in electronic format and soon to be available in print! DerHexer: Hi all HOST RL Marz: Do you expect to keep what you have of Cynnador on the web forever, Djinger/Patrick, or will parts of it come down when the book is published? Darkomik77: yo der PMSallume: If an author has difficult or unusual words or names, they'd better provide a pronunciation guide along with it. I hate to find out three years later I've mispronounced names all that time Djinger: I don't see any real reason to remove it as yet, Jan. And I had to cut out the sex stuff since I want my site PG even if some of my work isn't. HOST RL Marz: Sex Stuff? DerHexer: Sex stuff?? HOST RL Marz: Sex Stuff?!? Do you expurgate all of your website postings similarly? Araiused: Sex stuff??? Djinger: There is some sex scenes in Cynnador. Orgies and so forth. Keep the women interested. Araiused: Echoooo HOST RL Marz: LOLOLOLOLOLOL PMSallume: LOL! PMSallume: Hey, I'm an action kind of gal.. Araiused: The men won't be interested? Djinger: Read my stuff on Blood Fetish. DerHexer: Well, PMS, its only kinky the first time Darkomik77: who says men won't be interested? HOST RL Marz: Of course not Ara. We all know that men are all analitical creatures. PMSallume: LOL! HOST RL Marz: I think I spelled that incorrectly. Djinger: Men can't write sex scenes as well as women, so I don't even try. DerHexer: And you should try everything twice Araiused: Men are only interested in blood and guts, Dark? PMSallume: analytical DerHexer: Blood, guts and breasts HOST RL Marz: Okay...Djinger...do you edit all of your fiction that is available online? T83BIRD: Freudian slip, Marz? Araiused: Woohoo HOST RL Marz: Thank you PMS> Log Entry: Other Worlds SF Chat [Members - 10] 2/24/2003 10:30 PM HOST RL Marz: Indeed T83. PMSallume: So if you didn't like broccoli the first time Der then I can force it down your throat the second time? LOL! Djinger: Edit? Not sure what you mean, Jan. PMSallume: n/p Marz Araiused: Famous sex scene in Gone with the Wind. DerHexer: I loved broccoli. Loved ever since George I said he hated it Darkomik77: ara, what say you about John Norman's ? [] HOST RL Marz: I mean, Djinger, that when we read your excerpts online, can we be pretty sure that when we buy your books... HOST RL Marz: it will be word for word... or can we expect... HOST RL Marz: upon purchasing your work from Twighlight or DoubleDragon... HOST RL Marz: to get a little "extra". Djinger: Cynnador, definitely. Most of the other excerpts are pretty much straight from the book. HOST RL Marz: Well....I think you may have sold a few copies of Cynnador right there Pat. HOST RL Marz: I know of one for sure. Djinger: And some, like Doakes and Haig or Brendell, don't lend themselves to sex scenes to be honest. HOST RL Marz: Understood. Djinger: Although, come to think of it, Doakes does have an encounter... HOST RL Marz: But they have the humor to tickle us instead. HOST RL Marz: LOLOLOLOLOL DerHexer: I'm trying to imagine a sex scene in a Lovecraft novel T83BIRD: ::::wondering how or if the old bit about men liking an emphasis on action and women on relationships fits here::::: Djinger: Actually, TB, I DO try to focus on my characters and their relationships. A few reviewers have even commented on that. Darkomik77: Der, then you haven't read Duet For the Devil Darkomik77: very nasty Djinger: But I don't write much romance. Although, surprisingly, Body Shop is one. T83BIRD: thx Dj HOST RL Marz: Der...I believe the movie that was erroneously attributed to Poe, but was actually taken from the Dexter whatsits story would fit there. PMSallume: Have you found your styles evolving as each story unfolds? Djinger: As is "THe Aegis of the Dragon," also avialable from Twilight Times. HOST RL Marz: Djinger/Patrick... Body Shop... your dark horror/comedy is also a romance? Djinger: PM: I try to vary my style according to the story. Actually, since many are written in first person, that isn't that difficult. Djinger: Yes, it is. Graff kills his future girl friend. But since he dies as well, it's cool. DerHexer: Duet for the Devil written by Lovecraft? HOST RL Marz: Der... Vincent Price starred in that movie, btw. Can't recall the title off hand. DerHexer: Nevermind Darkomik77: Der, nope, written by Chandler & Winter Damon HOST RL Marz: First person? Well there's a feat right there, Patrick. DerHexer: So, Dark, what does that have to do w/Lovecraft? HOST RL Marz: Don't most publishers shy away from 1st person narratives? Darkomik77: Der, it's very Lovecraftian Djinger: I don't know. If you immerse yourself somewhat in the character, I think it can be done. DerHexer: Djinger, why did you chose to write fantasy? STARMOM79: bak Djinger: Jan, I don't know about that. That might be just one of the reasons I haven't cracked the big boys. Lenght being the other. Araiused: WB, STAR Djinger: Dark: I don't know a lot about science, so I can make up more with fantasy. Lazy man's way out. PMSallume: I'm all for that Dj... STARMOM79: thanks, Ara T83BIRD: BTW, about half of Dickens' BLEAK HOUSE is first person narration and the other half third person objective. HOST RL Marz: Frankly, these days, most SF authors being published seem to have only a touch-and-go relationship to science. Perhaps you're being too hard on yourself Djinger. HOST RL Marz: Interesting observation T83. Djinger...do you ever change voice in your novels? T83BIRD: thx Marz Djinger: Perhaps. I have been playing around with an apocalypse book called The King of California for a few years. May still happen. HOST RL Marz: That is start out in 1st and move to 3rd, etc? OnlineHost: SciFiDog has entered the room. SciFiDog: woof HOST RL Marz: Hello SciFiDog we're chatting with Patrick Welch, author of several fantasy novels now available in electronic format and soon to be available in print! T83BIRD: Hi Sci Araiused: Bowow, Sci Darkomik77: yo sci SciFiDog: yay! PMSallume: woof Dog Djinger: Change voices? Not on purpose. If I have to move between characters, ala Cynnador or Body Shop, I'll stick with 3rd person period. Araiused: You can do that, Marz, if your books is divided in parts. STARMOM79: Left Hand of Darkness is first person and won a Hugo HOST RL Marz: Okay cool. SciFiDog: e-format samples avail? and if so, where? Djinger: I find staying with one narrator is safest no matter what. STARMOM79: Hi, Sci and Der HOST RL Marz: http://www.sff.net/people/patrickw/ PMSallume: Changing voice in the middle of a chapter without separation is very confusing. I know, I've done that accidentally. SciFiDog: SMOM, LHoD was a teriffic book! Djinger: Links to my publishers are also available on my web site. STARMOM79: Yep T83BIRD: Then, of course, there is James Joyce's *three-dimensional fiction,* which employs shifts in time, place, viewpoint, narrator, etc. HOST RL Marz: For those of you interested in breaking into the epublishing market. STARMOM79: But, T, nobody understands Joyce SciFiDog: copied. pasted. and saved to fave. [] Araiused: Boy, you are so quick, Sci [] T83BIRD: Not so, Sci. A little knowledge of Irish history, customs, and folklore helps. SciFiDog: I just love new victi... uh, I mean authors. [] HOST RL Marz: Okay Patrick/Djinger, you mentioned that an excerpt of Cynnador will be available from someone other than Twighlight or DoubleDragon in the future... is this yet a third publisher? PMSallume: Katherine Kerr, one of my favorite authors did that as well in her Deverry series Djinger: Infiinity Plus is an e-zine based in England. They have published excerpts/stories from Brendell and Westchester Station previously. As well as reviewed Body Shop. PMSallume: dang slow lag... SciFiDog: Ara... a miracle @ aol speeds. Djinger: And believe me, getting an e-book reviewed is tough. HOST RL Marz: How so, Djinger? PMSallume: I was going to ask you about that Djinger: Best of all, I've seen many hits on my web site from appearing there. HOST RL Marz: Can you tell us what makes it so difficult? Djinger: Many sites/mags won't review e-books. SF Site, Locus, the major print mags, even many e-zines! The Wandering Troll briefly published e-books Djinger: but insisted on hard copy to review. DerHexer: Do they give reasons for that, Dj?? STARMOM79: They can't make marks on the screen Log Entry: Other Worlds SF Chat [Members - 11] 2/24/2003 10:45 PM Araiused: LOL, STAR Djinger: No reasons except they claim they're hard to read, Der. I suspect it's more than that. E-book writers are still considered the red-headed step child by many. Perhaps with some justification. HOST RL Marz: Djinger/Patrick, a lot of us are aspiring and so we do like to pick the brains of folks who are well on the road. You don't mind answering some nuts and bolts questions do you? OnlineHost: SciFiDog has left the room. T83BIRD: bye Sci HOST RL Marz: Who let the dog out? Djinger: Will try, although my approach to writing is probably, uh, different than most. HOST RL Marz: Well, it's not just writing that we're learning about. T83BIRD: Whatever works, Dj. HOST RL Marz: Just writing is only part of the game these days. HOST RL Marz: How long did you thwack away at the electronic door before you saw your first piece online? Basically how long did it take from the first submission to publication for you? PMSallume: True...this is very educational for me. I like to find out how other authors work to see if I'm out of the norm. LOL STARMOM79: Have to leave now. Thanks Djinger and Marz. See everyone later OnlineHost: STARMOM79 has left the room. HOST RL Marz: Nite Starmom. Djinger: Night mom. Darkomik77: gotta go, thanks for the chat OnlineHost: Darkomik77 has left the room. T83BIRD: Nite STAR Araiused: Nite, STAR Araiused: and Dark HOST RL Marz: Later Dark. T83BIRD: Nite Dark OnlineHost: SciFiDog has entered the room. HOST RL Marz: Hello SciFiDog we're chatting with Patrick Welch, author of several fantasy novels now available in electronic format and soon to be available in print! T83BIRD: wb Sci HOST RL Marz: Re's Dog. Araiused: Re's Sci Djinger: Let's see. My first appeared in Knightmares. And I didn't know it was accepted at first because I had switched providers! SciFiDog: I try to stay off drugs... But AOL keeps me on DamItAl HOST RL Marz: But was that the first story you submitted for publication? Djinger: Then I found Orphic Chronicles and Pegasus OnLine and hit them with some stuff. T83BIRD: LOL Sci Djinger: Jan, I think it might have been for e-zines. I had been submitting much earlier to the print mags. With only one success. I had stopped writing fiction for nearly 20 years before I discuvered the net. SciFiDog: * copyright "Damitol" and all its various typishes. [] HOST RL Marz: I'm asking these questions for just that reason. A lot of us are hanging on by our teeth and fingernails wondering if we should just give up. PMSallume: (thanks Marz...) Araiused: Give up what? Araiused: "Never give up never surrender." HOST RL Marz: Hearing about how long and how hard it's been for someone well along on the publishing road helps us gain some persepective. Djinger: Oh, I remember the first time. I published on the net. I submitted to and won an AOL writing contest. HOST RL Marz: Truly? What did you win? SciFiDog: Djinger/PW gets to use and write "Damitol" for free, in honor of OWC Chat attendance. [] PMSallume: 1000 free hours PMSallume: LOL! Djinger: A Best Fantasy of the Year collection. Nice book actually. HOST RL Marz: Cool. HOST RL Marz: Do you recommend competitions for beginning authors then, or are some of them bogus? Djinger: But I continued to send out fiction to various e-zines. Not everything was accepted but quite a few were. PMSallume: So the process is the same for ezines as paper ones? Djinger: As far as contests, if the prize isn't more than what you pay to enter, and you shouldn't have to pay much, then why bother? HOST RL Marz: Okay...not trying to be embarrasing here... just looking at the pile of rejection slips on our own desks. About what percentage rejection did you experience at first? Djinger: In terms of submitting, PM? I would say so, although I think e-zines are much more open to new writers than print. PMSallume: (looking at bills piled up on desk actually) HOST RL Marz: lol, yours too? LOL. Djinger: Gee, maybe 30/40 percent. And some were accepted elsewhere. And I don't recommend you save those rejection slips. Just move on to the next story. DerHexer: Have to go prepare for interviews tomorrow. Night all OnlineHost: DerHexer has left the room. HOST RL Marz: Night Der. T83BIRD: Nite der Djinger: Niters, Der SciFiDog: Dj/PW.. Once upon a time, someone (*cough*Patterner*cough*) claimed in this space that if you e-publish.. the hardcopy publishers will not touch a story, because you gave up North American Rights. I want your take on that issue. HOST RL Marz: Speaking of bills, you mention that you do suppliment your income with your story sales. About how much do these paying e markets pay, if we may ask? Araiused: Ahem, Sci [] Djinger: It used to be that way. But you don't have to give up North American rights, just electronic rights. Djinger: But some won't touch anything that appeared elsewhere in any event so, yes, there is a downside. Djinger: IF that's your concerned, try to print BEFORE you try electronic. PMSallume: Hmmm.... SciFiDog: Thank you for clearing that up a little. HOST RL Marz: And then after you've exhausted the print markets head for the electronic ones...because it's *still* exposure and some cash, correct? HOST RL Marz: Do eZines, eBooks pay by the word or a percentage of hits or what Djinger? Djinger: E markets pay anywhere from a "nice job" to a flat rate of $10 or $20 or even .05/word. The latter, of course, are few and far between. T83BIRD: Staying briefly, but thanks for coming and answering our queries, Dj. Thanks for hosting and moderating, Marz. HOST RL Marz: We've got 4 more minutes to grill Patrick T83. SciFiDog: LOLOL. I love "Attaboys" but not that much. LOL HOST RL Marz: And Grill we shall. Djinger: Let's see. First question: yes, exposure is exposure so why not. Second: word or straight rate usually, Jan. Don't know how you pay by "hits." HOST RL Marz: How about eBooks, Patrick? Araiused: Attagirl, Sci! T83BIRD: Marz, when the stampede happens, I can't get a long thank you in. Djinger: E books is a flat percentage per sale. HOST RL Marz: Oh all right t83. HOST RL Marz: harumph. Djinger: And, unfortunately, no advances. Only money we make is on sales. Period. SciFiDog: Ara... you pc girl. [] HOST RL Marz: Folks....you can read Patrick's excerpts... HOST RL Marz: http://www.sff.net/people/patrickw/ HOST RL Marz: You can also follow links to buy his ebooks and learn more about the trade paperbacks there. HOST RL Marz: Let's thank Patrick from coming out and staying a full 2 hours... HOST RL Marz: to answer our questions! HOST RL Marz: :::applauds:::: Araiused: Thanks, Patrick! SciFiDog: Dj... If I could sell my period on e-bay... 10cents a cramp... I'd be rich! PMSallume: Thanks ever so much Patrick, it was very informational! Araiused: :: clap clap ::: OnlineHost: MarblePetal has entered the room. Djinger: Been fun. And I didn't run out of beer! HOST RL Marz: Hello MarblePetal we're chatting with Patrick Welch, author of several fantasy novels now available in electronic format and soon to be available in print! SciFiDog: thank you PW. enjoyed you. PMSallume: Sci...you and every other female! HOST RL Marz: ::::thwaps the dog::: T83BIRD: Hi MP Araiused: Thanks, Marz! HOST RL Marz: Thanks everyone, and thank you *very* much Patrick for a wonderful interview! PMSallume: (going to sffnet asap) OnlineHost: MarblePetal has left the room. HOST RL Marz: Folks... I was a bad hostess... Djinger: Hope that some of you might be interested in one of my books one of these days. And I vow to make a science fiction convention this summer somewhere! PMSallume: Marz you did a great job! Log Entry: Other Worlds SF Chat [Members - 8] 2/24/2003 11:00 PM Araiused: Howso, Marz? Araiused: TorCon, Patrick!! HOST RL Marz: I ran no macros .... HOST RL Marz: so guess what happens next. SciFiDog: Damitol... doesn't cure cramps... but makes it so you won't care about that... or even world hunger! Buy Damitol today! PMSallume: I was here from the beginning, having no commercials was a bonus! Djinger: Hmm, Toronto is only 8 hrs from here. HOST RL Marz: ****TUESDAY, February 25, 10PM ET**** HOST RL Marz: . HOST RL Marz: ****.~^~^~^~^~^~IN THE O*W*C~^~^~^~^~^~**** HOST RL Marz: Cyberpunk SF HOST RL Marz: Once again it's time to haul out our leather dusters and mirrorshades and talk about science fiction's vision of the HOST RL Marz: near future on a bad-hair day. Will megalomaniacal nerds with leather fetishes someday rule the world with a Araiused: WorldCon! HOST RL Marz: cracked keyboard from a bad neighborhood in Jersey? Join HOST RL Umbra in O*W*C chat as we seek an answer HOST RL Marz: to this, and other burning questions related to cyberpunk SF. HOST RL Marz: Hope to see you there Patrick! SciFiDog: XXXXXXjob Marz! HOST RL Marz: And in case anyone needs to see what Pat looks like before TorCon, his picture is up on the Cybling site. Djinger: If I'm out of class, I'll try to stop by tomorrow night. Araiused: Some of us will be there, Patrick!! HOST RL Marz: Cool. SciFiDog: welcome Dj HOST RL Marz: WE always look forward to ensnaring unwary authors and picking their brains clean. Djinger: I enjoyed being brainwashed tonight, Jan. Djinger: Ladies and gentlemen, time to bid adieu. Niters all. Had a great time. You're a great bunch. Next time, show up earlier.