Log Entry: Other Worlds SF Chat [Members - 1] 2/17/2003 08:49 PM OnlineHost: To find more book chats and message boards check out Keyword:TABK and Keyword: Sci-Fi. HOST RL Marz: ***The opinions expressed in this file are not necessarily those of the Other*Worlds*Cafe or America Online.*** OnlineHost: NINLILA has entered the room. HOST RL Marz: ***The opinions expressed in this file are not necessarily those of the Other*Worlds*Cafe or America Online.*** HOST RL Marz: JAMES VAN PELT - http://www.sff.net/people/james.van.pelt/ will be joining us to talk about HOST RL Marz: his latest book, STRANGERS AND BEGGARS. You can read his story Parallel Highways at HOST RL Marz: http://www.sff.net/people/james.van.pelt/sample.htm His fiction has appeared in several HOST RL Marz: publications, including Analog Science Fiction and Fact, Asimov's, Realms of Fantasy, and HOST RL Marz: Weird Tales. His non-fiction work has appeared in Tangent magazine. Join HOST RL Marz to HOST RL Marz: chat with this local author. OnlineHost: VVanP has entered the room. HOST RL Marz: Hello VVanP we're chatting with James Van Pelt, author of Strangers and Beggars. HOST RL Marz: But then you know that, since you *are* James Van Pelt. VVanP: Hi, Marz. I made it. HOST RL Marz: 8^7 HOST RL Marz: Indeed. HOST RL Marz: Good to see you tonight. VVanP: Thank you. It's a welcome break from the grading. HOST RL Marz: And I appreciate your being early. Folks will be straggling in here. VVanP: I have a couple Journalism I editorials still to grade and twenty Heart of Darkness essays from my Advanced Placement kids. Log Entry: Other Worlds SF Chat [Members - 3] 2/17/2003 09:00 PM VVanP: It gives me shivers. HOST RL Marz: As you know, right now we have a couple of chats going... SF General and O*W*C and the first hour here overlaps with their last one. HOST RL Marz: LOLOLOL. OnlineHost: OldWolfGaidin has entered the room. VVanP: Who is in the other room? HOST RL Marz: Hello OldWolfGaidin we're chatting with James Van Pelt, author of Strangers and Beggars. OldWolfGaidin: Hello, Host Marz VVanP: Hi Wolf. HOST RL Marz: HOST RL Shark holds down the SFG on Mondays. OnlineHost: PMSallume has entered the room. HOST RL Marz: Hello PMSallume we're chatting with James Van Pelt, author of Strangers and Beggars. OldWolfGaidin: Hi, VVanP HOST RL Marz: So why don't we get started, the log is running and I'm eager to ask you a lot of questions about your work VVanP: Hi Pat. PMSallume: Oh darn....hit the wrong room button...sorry can't stay...SF Gen is where I wanted to go VVanP: Fire away, Janice. PMSallume: Catch you all later OnlineHost: PMSallume has left the room. HOST RL Marz: Folks...we're running in open chat mode tonight, so feel free to ask questions as the spirit moves you. OldWolfGaidin: Thanks, Marz HOST RL Marz: James ... or do you prefer Jim? VVanP: Jim among my friends. James is how I sign books. HOST RL Marz: Okay. I'll be presumptious then... VVanP: So, in case you wondered, Jim please. HOST RL Marz: Jim, am I correct that you write horror primarily... or do you class your work differently. OldWolfGaidin: I apologize. It's been a couple weeks since I read Jim's stories, but I remember I liked them. VVanP: No, actually, I write SF and fantasy primarily, with the occasional horror story or horror element thrown in. VVanP: I get into arguments with some of the writers in my writers group about whether I'm a horror writer or not. VVanP: I prefer upbeat endings, which really aren't common in horror. VVanP: Thanks, Wolf! HOST RL Marz: LOL. So you think of yourself primarily as a Science Fiction author... I notice you've been published in Tangent. OldWolfGaidin: True, Jim. When was the last time you remember an upbeat ending in an H.P. Lovecraft story? OldWolfGaidin: You're welcome, Jim. HOST RL Marz: Well, OWG, that depends on whether you're rooting for the humans or the Old Ones, lol. OldWolfGaidin: lol Marz HOST RL Marz: Jim, most of your work is in the short story format though? VVanP: LOL, Wolf! Yeah, most Lovecraft stories seemed to me to end with the first person narrator saying, "The door is opening . . . the tentacles . . . argh! Argh!" HOST RL Marz: lol OldWolfGaidin: lol VVanP: Most of my work is in short stories, Marz, but I do have a finished novel in a chest, and a second I'm supposed to deliver to an agent at TorCon. HOST RL Marz: Oh excellent...this year's WorldCon Torcon? VVanP: I just finished my taxes, so I know there isn't a lot of money in short fiction (I sold 16 stories in '02), but there is _some_ money in it. VVanP: Yes. I haven't missed a WorldCon for seven years. HOST RL Marz: Then I missed you at ConJose. I was running around like a chicken with its head cut off. OldWolfGaidin: Are short stories a way of getting recognition? VVanP: LOL, Marz. That's a good description of a WorldCon VVanP: The old advice about getting novels published, Wolf, was to sell a few short stories first. I've sold 75 now, so if that advice is good, I'm there *g*. Surprisingly a large number of new writers break in with novels thought. VVanP: thought = though HOST RL Marz: Yeah I've heard that's been the new way for the past couple of years. OldWolfGaidin: I see, Jim. Thanks. [] OldWolfGaidin: I putter about with short stories. HOST RL Marz: Why has it taken you this long to get around to writing a novel you'd present to an agent? VVanP: Since I do the John W. Campbell Award for Best New Writer web site, I get to see how folks break in. It's about 50/50 novels vs. short stories. VVanP: I think my natural length is the short story. Short attention span, I guess. OldWolfGaidin: I can't seem to write anything longer than a few scenes. VVanP: Well, if they're _good_ scenes, you have it made! OldWolfGaidin: ::nods:: OnlineHost: Darkomik77 has entered the room. HOST RL Marz: I didn't know you did that website, Jim. HOST RL Marz: Hello Darkomik77 we're chatting with James Van Pelt, author of Strangers and Beggars. OldWolfGaidin: I remembered the two short stories than Marz reccomended! HOST RL Marz: So does that mean you have to read all the nominations? Darkomik77: yo OldWolfGaidin: One was about a couple caught on an endless highway. OldWolfGaidin: Yo Dark [] VVanP: Most of my short stories are really only three to a half-dozen scenes long. Of course a scene might have multiple parts and last a thousand words or more. OldWolfGaidin: ::nods:: Log Entry: Other Worlds SF Chat [Members - 5] 2/17/2003 09:15 PM OldWolfGaidin: I outline them as a set of five scenes. VVanP: That's "Parallel Highways," Wolf. It has horror elements, but I let the folks redeem themselves at the end, a non-horror ending. OldWolfGaidin: That's the one! VVanP: Hi, Dark! OldWolfGaidin: I really, really liked that. VVanP: Thanks. It's one of my favorites. OldWolfGaidin: You're welcome. OldWolfGaidin: It had a nice catch, "I'll be damned if I get cut off this morning." [] VVanP: I got the idea for that one, as a matter of fact, while driving around L.A. for the '98 WorldCon there. OldWolfGaidin: Neat HOST RL Marz: LOL! So Jim, your natural length is the short story... you don't find yourself trying to cram more information in and having to delete.... HOST RL Marz: later? VVanP: Not often, although cutting out the unneeded stuff is a vital part of the editing process. HOST RL Marz: I'm just trying to get an idea of your routine when you sit down to write... VVanP: Mostly I find myself filling in vital details (sensory details mostly and important foreshadowing) when I'm editing. OldWolfGaidin: I have to keep adding stuff in to make my stories long enough. [] HOST RL Marz: You get an idea, sit down and have it in one sitting... or... ? VVanP: I started a story tonight, so the process is pretty fresh in my head. Actually, the first step is a rush, I type my name and address in the upper left, space down to the middle, then type a title. It's very satisfying. VVanP: Then I write somewhere over 200 words a day, rereading, revising and rethinking the previous stuff before adding new stuff every day until its done. HOST RL Marz: And you know it's done, when? VVanP: I'll show the story to some trusted readers when I've done everything I can, then I do a final revision and send it off. HOST RL Marz: Your trusted readers, are they a formal writing group? VVanP: My last readers catch the idiocies, like changing the spelling of a main character's name half way through, and other stupidities like that. OldWolfGaidin: Are they "beta readers"? VVanP: Sort of, Wolf. I belong to an odd kind of writers' group. It involves a once a month conference call with two writers in Seattle, two in Denver, and another Grand Junction area writer and myself. HOST RL Marz: Cool. So you read and critique their work as well? OldWolfGaidin: Oh, neat! I love finding out how writers work. OnlineHost: T83BIRD has entered the room. HOST RL Marz: Hello T83BIRD we're chatting with James Van Pelt, author of Strangers and Beggars. Darkomik77: yo t VVanP: It's a high-powered group, though. Michael Bateman, who recently debuted in Asimov's, Carrie Vaughn, a regular in Realms of Fantasy and Weird Tales, Barry Fishler, who has appeared in The Third Alternative, and Brian Hiebert, HOST RL Marz: Feel free to ask him questions as the spirit moves you. T83BIRD: Hello, James, Marz. Hi Dark, OWG VVanP: who has appeared in Talebones are all in the group. OldWolfGaidin: Hello, T-bird [] HOST RL Marz: So all of you are working authors. VVanP: Hi, T-bird. Yep. Well, working-at-it authors. OldWolfGaidin: "As the spirit moves me?" What are we, holding seance here? [] HOST RL Marz: Jim it's important for a writer to find a group of people to work with who are "on the same page" as he is? VVanP: Yes, I think so. For me, what a writer really needs to find is a qualified reader who is sympathetic to what the writer is trying to accomplish. HOST RL Marz: Okay.... which is why a lot of author's first reader is their spouse, I would assume. VVanP: It doesn't do any good to hand the story to someone who doesn't "get" the idea of what you are trying to do, or wouldn't like it even if you pulled it off. HOST RL Marz: I hear ya. So that means that finding your personal "readers" for feedback is a very important part of the writing process. VVanP: Yes. I don't mean that a good reader shouldn't be able to tell the writer when the story sucks, however. Sometimes that's exactly what the writer needs. HOST RL Marz: I'm assuming that you feel it's important to have more than ONE reader as well. VVanP: But a good reader will tell you that it sucks because it didn't succeed at what it was trying to do, and that pisses the reader off, because the reader wants it to succeed too! OnlineHost: TAMirabile has entered the room. HOST RL Marz: Hello TAMirabile we're chatting with James Van Pelt, author of Strangers and Beggars. Darkomik77: yo tam HOST RL Marz: Folks...we're running in open chat mode tonight, so feel free to ask questions as the spirit moves you. VVanP: It's pretty rare that just one reader will give me enough feedback to make me thoroughly rethink. TAMirabile: Hi, VV! VVanP: Hi, Tam! T83BIRD: James, that sounds rather like a saying of Mark Twain: "A tale shall arrive somewhere and accomplish something." Hi TAM OldWolfGaidin: Hi, Tam VVanP: Absolutely. TAMirabile: Hi, T! Dark! Marz! OWG! (and NIN) HOST RL Marz: Jim, again you say that the short story is your natural length... which I find amazing since I can never get anything going in that short amount of paper.... VVanP: That's weird, isn't it? HOST RL Marz: How did you discover it was "your natural length"? Was there a discovery process? TAMirabile: Thats why short story writers are so amazing VVanP: Some people love to go on into the world of the story, and they are the novelists. Some of us just like to visit the world, and we're the short story writers. HOST RL Marz: Okay...so it's a different way of looking at the world you're showing. TAMirabile: At least you don't have to keep as many story lines straight T83BIRD: You might say that short story witers probe. Novelists explore. VVanP: I just started out writing short stories, so I'm not sure I discovered it. The discovery was when I was 50,000 words into the novel and I realized I could sustain a narrative for that long. HOST RL Marz: You don't rummage around in your character's heads. Log Entry: Other Worlds SF Chat [Members - 7] 2/17/2003 09:30 PM VVanP: Probe or grope *g*. HOST RL Marz: lol OldWolfGaidin: lol T83BIRD: As you choose, James. HOST RL Marz: Jim, let's talk a little about Strangers and Beggars ... VVanP: I'm pretty character driven, so I feel like I'm rummaging. My stories aren't generally action or event driven. VVanP: All right. Shoot. HOST RL Marz: Not a novel...a collection? VVanP: Strangers and Beggars is the collection. My novel in the chest is called The Summer of the Apocalypse. HOST RL Marz: Okay...and the novel you're working on and are taking to TorCon is called...? VVanP: "One Fell Down." HOST RL Marz: Cool. The stories in Strangers and Beggars... do they all fit into one specific genre? VVanP: The collection happened because Patrick Swenson, the owner of Fairwood Press, asked if I was interested in doing a collection. I tried to remain calm when I said yes. HOST RL Marz: LOL, that must have been a wonderful question to answer. VVanP: The stories in S&B go from straight SF to fantasy to horror. HOST RL Marz: About what percentage of each? T83BIRD: Great. A well-cut diamond has many facets. VVanP: Horror is the least. I have a story called "Happy Ending," which truly is horror (turned on its head). Probably more fantasy than SF slightly. Darkomik77: Strangers & Beggars in hardback or paperback? VVanP: Paperback. OnlineHost: RowrBasil has entered the room. HOST RL Marz: Hello RowrBasil we're chatting with James Van Pelt, author of Strangers and Beggars. T83BIRD: Hi Rowr RowrBasil: ok Darkomik77: yo rowr TAMirabile: Hi, Rowr! RowrBasil: i'm listening.. HOST RL Marz: 50% Science Fiction? 75%? RowrBasil: hi all OldWolfGaidin: Evening, Rowr [] TAMirabile: Nice cover on S&B VVanP: You can take a peek at it at http://www.sff.net/people/james.van.pelt/strangers2.htm HOST RL Marz: Folks...we're running in open chat mode tonight, so feel free to ask questions as the spirit moves you. OldWolfGaidin: ::gets kicked by a ghost:: [] TAMirabile: OWG [] Casper? VVanP: Let me see, 17 stories, 3 horror, 8 fantasy, 6 SF. OldWolfGaidin: The ghost of one of the squids who got tossed too hard, Tam. [] TAMirabile: Soooo VV when do you give up your day job? TAMirabile: ::sneaks up on OWG:: TAMirabile: :::dumps a big ole bucket of squid on 'em:: TAMirabile: ::laughs as they fall around him.....::: TAMirabile: ::tries to run but is laughing too hard::: TAMirabile: :::falls and {S Giggles}::: VVanP: LOL! Unless Hollywood walks in with a nice check (and percentages), I'll be teaching until my refinance on the house is paid off. HOST RL Marz: Are all of the stories in Strangers and Beggars original to this collection or have some or all of them been published before? TAMirabile: LOL sounds familiar VVanP: One is new to the collection, "Finding Orson," the rest are reprints from 12 different magazines. VVanP: Whoops, 10 magazines. HOST RL Marz: Cool. That's one of the wonderful things about collections... you get to read stories you would have missed otherwise. TAMirabile: How would we get one signed? bring it to Torcon? or? RowrBasil: finding orson....Card? Bean? Welles? Or the guy Mork talked to? VVanP: If you're coming to TorCon, that would be the most direct way. T83BIRD: James, have you thought about doing a collection of all *new* stories? VVanP: LOL, Rowr. None of those. Orson is a student in a classroom. RowrBasil: ok OldWolfGaidin: I was thinking that last, but I wasn't going to say anything, Rowr. [] VVanP: Hi, T-bird. To do an all original collection, I'd have to NOT send them to magazines after I finish them. All my reflexes scream out against that *g*. Must mail manuscripts! RowrBasil: that's ok, Wold...my role in this room is to say all the things nobody else would be loon enough to say.. RowrBasil: Wolf, i meant HOST RL Marz: lol T83BIRD: Ahso. Thanks for answering, James. OldWolfGaidin: *heh* Rowr. I see. [] TAMirabile: VV was there a time when you had to force yourself to mail them? OldWolfGaidin: "I have no collection and I must publish" ?[] VVanP: LOL. TAMirabile: and----does this satisfy the publish or perish thing? VVanP: Of the stories I'm most happy to see in the collection (because they appeared in small venues), I'm really glad that "Voices" and "Parallel Highways" made it in. It really broadened the audience for those two. VVanP: I teach in the high school. The publish or perish thing isn't functional there. Most of the teachers I work with assume I must be slacking off on my grading. T83BIRD: LOL James HOST RL Marz: Jim, you say the majority of the stories in Strangers and Beggars are fantasy. Do you find that fantasy stories are easier the write or place? TAMirabile: LOL VVanP: Or taking speed. HOST RL Marz: sorry... easier TO write or easier TO place? TAMirabile: or a tiny room where time runs faster Log Entry: Other Worlds SF Chat [Members - 8] 2/17/2003 09:45 PM VVanP: I don't find fantasy easier. It's just some ideas are fantasy ones, and some are SF. I've been lucky in selling both. I'm one of the few folks selling both to Analog and Weird Tales. OnlineHost: Melendez987 has entered the room. HOST RL Marz: That is a unique distinction, Jim. OnlineHost: Melendez987 has left the room. HOST RL Marz: Hello Melendez987 we're chatting with James Van Pelt, author of Strangers and Beggars. Darkomik77: gotta go guys see yall OnlineHost: Darkomik77 has left the room. HOST RL Marz: Later Dar. TAMirabile: Night Dark VVanP: I know. It feels odd. Bye Dark! T83BIRD: Nite Dark TAMirabile: Do you hear from people moving from one genre to another from reading your stories? HOST RL Marz: So all of the genres you work in are equally easy/hard? VVanP: I'd say so. Every story presents its own challenge. VVanP: The genre isn't as difficult to handle as the narrative mode. VVanP: I just finished a story that blends three points of view. It gave me twitches to write. HOST RL Marz: I'm just thinking of the placement as well... not that many horror or hard SF magazines out there anymore. HOST RL Marz: When I say "placement" by the way, I should be saying "Sell", it's just that short stories seem so much like children. T83BIRD: James, blending points of view is a sort of *Joycean* technique which I much admire. VVanP: Not that many well-paying ones, but still a lot of them. If you check Ralan.com, you'll find tons of places that will take either. HOST RL Marz: That's an excellent tip. Thanks Jim. VVanP: I've never run out of paying markets to send a work, and I just sold one last year to the 49th market to see it. OldWolfGaidin: Scariest example of changing viewpoints I've read is A Storm of Swords. VVanP: That's on my nightstand to read. RowrBasil: Well...dickens changes points of view a lot in Bleak House..if I recall rightly.. OldWolfGaidin: Neat, Jim. I'm about halfway through it. VVanP: Changing point of view in a novel isn't all that unusual. Doing it in a short story is more problematic, but it can still be done. OldWolfGaidin: ::nods:: HOST RL Marz: Jim, I get the feeling from what I've heard so far from you about Strangers and Beggars that you don't make as much of a distinction between fantasy and horror as you do between fantasy and SF? Am I wrong there? VVanP: Most writing teachers advise against the shifting POV, though. VVanP: Hmmm. Interesting question. VVanP: Yeah, you're right. You can have horror/SF or horror/F. T83BIRD: James, most writing teachers don't know James Joyce very well, either. VVanP: LOL!! RowrBasil: beware beware the shifting Pov, my son, the views that switch, the tones that clash.. OldWolfGaidin: James Joyce's stuff scares me. [] OldWolfGaidin: lol Rowr VVanP: Horror is an effect, goes the party line, not a genre. OnlineHost: REGENTIC has entered the room. T83BIRD: OWG, Joyce's technique is what he called *three-dimensional fiction.* HOST RL Marz: Hello REGENTIC we're chatting with James Van Pelt, author of Strangers and Beggars. T83BIRD: Hi REG REGENTIC: Evening gang TAMirabile: I hate to run, but I have to be up very very early Good night. Thanks, VV! Thanks Marz! hi/bye REG OldWolfGaidin: Evening, Reg. RowrBasil: OldWolf...I submit that F's Wake was not meant to be read. HOST RL Marz: Well, obviously that party has never taken place at the world horror convention. Do you subscribe to the party line? HOST RL Marz: Night, Tam. T83BIRD: NIte TAM VVanP: I have a pretty simple (read, simple-minded) view of horror, which is that it is a story whose theme is, "something bad out there is going to get you." REGENTIC: Night TAM OldWolfGaidin: Oh, you mean like grossing out the reader, Jim (effect) VVanP: Night Tam! Sorry you couldn't stay. OnlineHost: TAMirabile has left the room. VVanP: Stephen King lists that as one of the level of horror (the gross out). There are at least a couple of others. There's no gross out in The Haunting of Hill House, but it's pretty horrifying. VVanP: Hi, Reg. OldWolfGaidin: I've heard that "Ulysses" takes a long and winding journey to read, Rowr. [] HOST RL Marz: Hey, that's a good way to look at it as far as I'm concerned. Do the characters in these stories react differently to the outside threat than they would in one of your SF stories? REGENTIC: Hey there OldWolfGaidin: ::nods:: That's what I was refering to, Jim. I read an excerpt of King's essay on horror somewhere. T83BIRD: OWG, Ulysses involves some knowledge of Irish history, customs, and folklore as well as other things. VVanP: If you are interested, read King's Danse Macabre. A novel-length meditation on horror. OnlineHost: Brummie68 has entered the room. HOST RL Marz: Hello Brummie68 we're chatting with James Van Pelt, author of Strangers and Beggars. Brummie68: How wonderful, RL T83BIRD: Hey Brumm VVanP: No, Marz, I don't think they necessarily have to, although in horror movies they have a tendency to rush _toward_ their doom instead of doing something sensible. OldWolfGaidin: Thanks, Jim. HOST RL Marz: And I'm going to take this opportunity to put up a little more information about Jim...as well as some other macros. Pardon me a moment Jim. HOST RL Marz: ****TUESDAY, February 18, 10PM ET**** HOST RL Marz: . HOST RL Marz: ****.~^~^~^~^~^~IN THE O*W*C~^~^~^~^~^~**** HOST RL Marz: It's Just My Job HOST RL Marz: . HOST RL Marz: Somebody has to pilot the commuter shuttle to Europa, process extraterrestrials' visa applications, and unclog the zero-gee commodes. HOST RL Marz: Golden Age SF held out the promise of careers in space during our own generation. What will it take to get us out there? Join HOST RL HOST RL Marz: Umbra in O*W*C chat for a look at blue-collar spacemen! HOST RL Marz: JAMES VAN PELT - http://www.sff.net/people/james.van.pelt/ will be joining us to talk about HOST RL Marz: his latest book, STRANGERS AND BEGGARS. You can read his story Parallel Highways at HOST RL Marz: http://www.sff.net/people/james.van.pelt/sample.htm His fiction has appeared in several HOST RL Marz: publications, including Analog Science Fiction and Fact, Asimov's, Realms of Fantasy, and HOST RL Marz: Weird Tales. His non-fiction work has appeared in Tangent magazine. Join HOST RL Marz to HOST RL Marz: chat with this local author. VVanP: It's hard to be "local" on the Internet. LOL REGENTIC: That and generally dropping all means of defense when the threat plays dead. HOST RL Marz: Jiim, we've seen you here a lot as a civilian, which means you're local *to us*. Jim, is Strangers and Beggars only available in paperback or is there and electronic version? Brummie68: What earlier SF writers inspired you, VVan? VVanP: Only paperback at this point. VVanP: Hi, Brummie. I'm a big Bradbury fan, but all the other usual suspects are in there too: Asimov, Heinlein, Clarke, Silverberg, etc. Log Entry: Other Worlds SF Chat [Members - 8] 2/17/2003 10:00 PM VVanP: I was really taken with C.S. Lewis's Out of the Silent Planet trilogy too. Brummie68: I always loved Clarke OldWolfGaidin: Hi, Brummie Brummie68: Favorite Bradbury book, VVan? Brummie68: Hello OldWolf T83BIRD: Must leave, Marz. Thanks James, Marz. Nite all. REGENTIC: So how does one find a good literary agent or publisher for all your works? OnlineHost: RowrBasil has left the room. VVanP: Now I'm more interested in my most influential books: Mythago Wood, by Robert Holdstock; The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, by Heinlein; Lord of the Rings, by T. HOST RL Marz: Nite T83 VVanP: I really liked The Martian Chronicles. Brummie68: hmmmmm HOST RL Marz: Interesting...Martian Chronicles was the first book that turned me onto SF. HOST RL Marz: Jim, about how old were you when you first started submitting stories for sale? OnlineHost: T83BIRD has left the room. Brummie68: Adored Martian Chronicles VVanP: Hi Reg. I think the _best_ way is to go to the conventions and meet them. If you can't do that, read Locus and find out what agents are actually selling work. There's a lot of rip-off artists out there. OldWolfGaidin: Jim, what do you think of vanity press publishers? VVanP: Marz, I really started submitting stories when I was 29, but I did't submit very many. I got serious in 1987, when I was 33. Brummie68: thank you Brummie68: I must go OnlineHost: Brummie68 has left the room. HOST RL Marz: Jim, we've kept you on the hot seat now for about an hour... VVanP: I can't think of a single legitimate reason to use a vanity press other than to publish a family history or a church cook book for a small audience. It's no way to make a career. HOST RL Marz: I know you have things you're *supposed* to be doing right now...but can we keep you here for questions a while longer? OldWolfGaidin: Thanks, Jim VVanP: I can stay a bit. Those Heart of Darkness papers aren't exactly tempting. HOST RL Marz: LOL... okay. Excellent. Just let us know when you absolutely have to leave and we *might* take off the duct tape. OldWolfGaidin: So you're not a comrade to Conrad, Jim? [] OnlineHost: KNITEMARE87 has entered the room. HOST RL Marz: Hello KNITEMARE87 we're chatting with James Van Pelt, author of Strangers and Beggars. OnlineHost: KNITEMARE87 has left the room. OnlineHost: KNITEMARE87 has entered the room. HOST RL Marz: Hello KNITEMARE87 we're chatting with James Van Pelt, author of Strangers and Beggars. VVanP: I _love_ Conrad. I'm not keen of a bunch of 17-year old thoughts about Conrad. Well, that's not true, but it's a lot of work to grade. VVanP: Hi, Knite. HOST RL Marz: At 29, when you first started sending out stories to magazines... VVanP: I sent out some very embarassingly weak stories. HOST RL Marz: did you have it in your mind that you were going to be *just* a SF author...or were you thinking more along the lines of being a writer. HOST RL Marz: Any and all genres. OldWolfGaidin: ::nods:: I see, Jim. KNITEMARE87: Is there protocol tonight????? OldWolfGaidin: Evening, Knite [] HOST RL Marz: Folks...we're running in open chat mode tonight, so feel free to ask questions as the spirit moves you. KNITEMARE87: Hi wolf VVanP: My first love was SF. I don't think it was until much later that it came to me that I could write in other genres. KNITEMARE87: Where do you get your inspiration? HOST RL Marz: Was that about the time you turned 33 and started getting more serious about your work? VVanP: In fact, I had two dreams. The first was to get a book into the library (I would have been shelved between Jack Vance and A.E. Van Vogt). The second was to sell a story to Analog. I've done both now, although I'm between Vance VVanP: and Varley at Barnes and Nobles. HOST RL Marz: cool. OnlineHost: Athanor IX has entered the room. Athanor IX: Hi. HOST RL Marz: Hello Athanor IX we're chatting with James Van Pelt, author of Strangers and Beggars. KNITEMARE87: Hiya Ath OldWolfGaidin: Like Barry Longyear, I get my ideas from Schenectady. [] OldWolfGaidin: Hi, Ath VVanP: Hi Knite. I'm not sure where it comes from. Mostly stories come from thinking about stories all the time. It's a matter of habit rather than inspiration, I think. HOST RL Marz: lololol that was a funny story. HOST RL Marz: You mentioned earlier that you submitted a story to 49 different markets before selling. Did I hear that correctly? VVanP: I think stories come from thinking in a narrative manner a lot. What's the beginning? What's the middle? What's the end? Why is it worth someone's time to listen to it? VVanP: Yep, 49 markets over the course of 10 years. KNITEMARE87: Do you base your characters off people you know, or yourself, or do they just come to you? VVanP: I sold that story to a pro-level market that didn't exist when I started submitting it, and it was listed in Gardner Dozois's honorable mention list in his Year's Best anthol VVanP: Characters are mix of folks I know and stuff I make up. Mostly I think they end up being me in different disguises. HOST RL Marz: Amazing perseverence to keep mailing a manuscript for 10 years, Jim. Are there any stories that you've put in the trunk with that early novel ... stories you'd never try to submit again ever? HOST RL Marz: And congratulations on the final sale and the recognition. Log Entry: Other Worlds SF Chat [Members - 7] 2/17/2003 10:15 PM VVanP: Yeah, a couple, but not many. My other perseverance story is that I started submitting to Asimov's in '84 and didn't sell a story there until last year (now I've sold him 4). But it took 36 manuscripts to open the door. HOST RL Marz: Folks...we're running in open chat mode tonight, so feel free to ask questions as the spirit moves you. VVanP: Hi, Athanor. HOST RL Marz: So "Never give up, never surrender" is a true SF author's cry. VVanP: LOL! I love that movie. OldWolfGaidin: So, making a sale is a matter of percentages, of continuing to submit a story? OldWolfGaidin: "Galaxy Quest" was the best science fantasy movie that year. [] VVanP: It's a matter of making your manuscript rise in quality above the other manuscripts in the slush pile. VVanP: It's also a matter of having a good manuscript to the right editor on the right day. OldWolfGaidin: Thanks, Jim. That's a good insight. OnlineHost: KNITEMARE87 has left the room. HOST RL Marz: So, perseverance as well as a good group of readers are important.... but you do have to grow in your art. OnlineHost: KNITEMARE87 has entered the room. HOST RL Marz: Hello KNITEMARE87 we're chatting with James Van Pelt, author of Strangers and Beggars. VVanP: Stephen King said once that the secret to being published was to be in the right place at the right time. He said, since you can't know when the right time is, your job is to get to the right place and stay there. HOST RL Marz: :::gets out velcro for Knite:::: KNITEMARE87: The gremlins from AOHell are out night =) HOST RL Marz: Which means mail and remail those manuscripts. VVanP: Yes. OnlineHost: Doug Stavenger has entered the room. HOST RL Marz: Hello Doug Stavenger we're chatting with James Van Pelt, author of Strangers and Beggars. HOST RL Marz: Have you ever resubmitted a story to the same magazine after a lapse of a few years without a significant rewrite? VVanP: I think you're also right about "growing in your art." It doesn't do any good to keep submitting if you're not submitting better stories. VVanP: I've submitted to the same magazine (and sold to them), but never to the same editor. VVanP: Hi, Doug. Doug Stavenger: Hi HOST RL Marz: Cool. That would be bad form, I assume. To resubmit a story to the same editor hoping he was having a better day. OldWolfGaidin: Hi, Doug Doug Stavenger: Hello Folks HOST RL Marz: Jim... cover letters. How important are they for unsolicited manuscripts and how "engaging" should you be in the letter. HOST RL Marz: Folks...we're running in open chat mode tonight, so feel free to ask questions as the spirit moves you. VVanP: I did sell a story to an editor who suggested a rewrite. I thought about it for a while, didn't change a thing, resent the story, and he bought it, declaring it "much improved." OldWolfGaidin: rofl HOST RL Marz: lolololololololol Doug Stavenger: perfect! HOST RL Marz: In other words, have you found that being "perky" gets better results? KNITEMARE87: LOL REGENTIC: Can you increase your chances of getting published by targeting your submissions to publishers who like your type of story better or are they not that specialized and just look for a good story that will sell good. VVanP: A cover letter doesn't do a thing to help sell a story, and it can hurt it. It should be neutral ("Please consider the enclosed story"), and maybe list a sale or two if you have significant ones. HOST RL Marz: Okay...so it should be businesslike and clear... not chatty. VVanP: Perky is in the eye of the beholder. I think if I got a handful of perky cover letters, I would just start to see them as annoying. Businesslike is safe, and it makes you look professional. VVanP: If you know the editor, or you have something real to say, of course, then it's a different matter. VVanP: If you met the editor at a convention (even if you just listened to a panel she/he was on), I might mention that in a letter. VVanP: But, no matter what, the story is what will sell the story. HOST RL Marz: Oh I just saw a copy of Weird Tales at Books-a-gajillion today.... witha VVanP story in it. VVanP: Which one? VVanP: I'm in the last two Weird Tales. KNITEMARE87: I think i saw a signed book by you in powells VVanP: Really! HOST RL Marz: I believe he means the most recent Weird Tales... what story was that? VVanP: "Small Town News." It was one of my Christmas stories. HOST RL Marz: He's going to pick the mag up tomorrow. KNITEMARE87: Was goin for a decent amount of money VVanP: I've sold maybe 10 Christmas stories. HOST RL Marz: Do you find that "holiday-centric" stories sell better? VVanP: Wow, Knight. Well, go back and push up the bidding *g*. KNITEMARE87: LOL, it wasnt an auction, i dont normally buy books like that OnlineHost: KNITEMARE87 has left the room. HOST RL Marz: Well?! When's the Christmas anthology due out?! OnlineHost: KNITEMARE87 has entered the room. VVanP: I think I've been lucky with the holiday stories. I like Christmas a lot, and I manage to turn that like into genre work. I had a Christmas-themed ghost story in the January Alfred Hitchcock's Mystery Mag. HOST RL Marz: Hello KNITEMARE87 we're chatting with James Van Pelt, author of Strangers and Beggars. KNITEMARE87: Damn it OnlineHost: Araiused has entered the room. HOST RL Marz: Hello Araiused we're chatting with James Van Pelt, author of Strangers and Beggars. VVanP: LOL, Zyxt. Araiused: Hello REGENTIC: afk OldWolfGaidin: Hello, Ara [] VVanP: Hi, Ara. HOST RL Marz: Folks...we're running in open chat mode tonight, so feel free to ask questions as the spirit moves you. KNITEMARE87: Hiya Ara Araiused: Too tired to even move... Araiused: Where is Zyxt?? Log Entry: Other Worlds SF Chat [Members - 9] 2/17/2003 10:30 PM KNITEMARE87: In cybling, ara HOST RL Marz: In Cybling. REGENTIC: This phone call might take more than a few, so I better go. Night all. Araiused: Sneak HOST RL Marz: Arararara Doug Stavenger: nite VVanP: Night, Reg. Thanks for coming. HOST RL Marz: Night Reggie. Araiused: Nite, REG OnlineHost: REGENTIC has left the room. HOST RL Marz: Jim, you say that you're actually taking a full length novel with you to TorCon.... KNITEMARE87: Night reggie HOST RL Marz: How long did it take you to finish the novel, and how did you choose the agent you're going to see? Araiused: Oh, cool, VV! HOST RL Marz: * Zyxt rattles chains in a ghostly manner VVanP: Yes. I promised the agent I'd have it by then. Actually, I'll mail it to him a couple weeks earlier so we can talk about it. It would be poor form to hand him a 500-page manuscript at the convention. Araiused: Zyxt, you bored? HOST RL Marz: How did you choose him, or was it the other way around? VVanP: The novel isn't done yet (I have my work cut out). The agent has been approaching me about my work for the last couple years. It's Joshua Bilmes. He represents quite a few folks. HOST RL Marz: Nah. [] VVanP: It's true that publishing short stories in significant venues does get you noticed. KNITEMARE87: How does one go about getting an agent? VVanP: Also, I was a finalist for a major award. KNITEMARE87: Do they find you, or do you find them VVanP: Somewhere earlier in the chat I talked about getting an agent. Go to conventions to meet them, or read Locus to find out who is actually selling work. There are literary sharks waiting to eat the unwary. VVanP: For me, agents found me. KNITEMARE87: How do you go about getting somethign published, do you just send your work to the publisher and pray that they like it? HOST RL Marz: And you checked them out after they *found* you,I take it. Araiused: brb VVanP: Pretty much, Knite. Go to Ralan.com to find out who is buying what and to get the addresses. Check SFWA.ORG for articles on how to prepare your manuscript. Write the best you can. Mail, then start writing something new. HOST RL Marz: Jim, you mention going to conventions to meet agents. But they don't have booths set up in the dealers room, right? Do you go to parties... HOST RL Marz: and actually talk to people or what? VVanP: Yes, Marz. I was pretty embarassed the first time I met a big agent, and I didn't recognize the name. Only later did I realize I had a great opportunity, but I'd blown it. HOST RL Marz: So it's a good idea to know your prey before hitting the convention? VVanP: I go to the panels where the agents talk so I can hear what they have to say, and then at a party or bar or hallway (wherever) I introduce myself. HOST RL Marz: Ah! Panels! HOST RL Marz: I *knew* they had to be good for something! KNITEMARE87: I have noticed that many big SF writers write short fiction first, then novels. Do many authors jump write in to novels, or does writing short stuff first help you get noticed? VVanP: I think it would be much harder work if I was unpublished and I had a novel under my arm. The agents are approached all the time by the unpublished, many who are really, really bad. HOST RL Marz: And, frankly, I have heard horror stories from publishers of being chased around conventions by people with manuscripts under their arms. LOL. VVanP: It's about half and half now, Knite. If you want to see how new writers are breaking in, go the http://www.sff.net/campbell-awards and look at the list of eligible authors. It shows where they started. HOST RL Marz: So, it's a good place to *MEET* agents and publishers. HOST RL Marz: Jim, do you do panels as well? VVanP: I was at a convention talking to an agent in a hallway, and a guy walked up, very stiffly shook her hand, said his name, and then said, "I heard you're supposed to introduce yourself to agents. There, we're introduced." VVanP: Then he walked away. HOST RL Marz: lololololololololol HOST RL Marz: Well, it *is* scarey. Jim. I have a hard time just talking to people sometimes. HOST RL Marz: lolololololol VVanP: Yes. I do panels. It's a great way to meet other professionals either in the green room or during the panel itself, and it's a great way to be visible to the fans. KNITEMARE87: LOLOL HOST RL Marz: Cool....what topics do you usually get slotted in for the panels? VVanP: I think of myself as shy, but I guess I'm not as shy as some folks who become comatose with strangers. Araiused: bak VVanP: Mostly I do the writing panels. How to break in, How to create characters, How to be professional. I also do education panels. But I've done a bit of everything. VVanP: At the last world con I did a one-man presentation with a Powerpoint called Publishing 101: the Short Story. HOST RL Marz: I'll have to come bug you at one of the panels at TorCon then, cybergods willing and the Creek don't rise. VVanP: There were about a hundred people in the room. HOST RL Marz: Cool. VVanP: I hope I see you there, Marz. HOST RL Marz: Do you think that volunteering for panels is also a good way for young authors to become "known" to agents and publishers? KNITEMARE87: I wish i could go to TorCon KNITEMARE87: ='( Araiused: Marz, got a day job? HOST RL Marz: Not yet. I'm still in the hoping mode, ARa. Araiused: Ahso VVanP: Yes, it is. It's tough to get on panels sometime, though, particularly at WorldCon. Sometimes old pros can't get panels. HOST RL Marz: Understood. Log Entry: Other Worlds SF Chat [Members - 8] 2/17/2003 10:45 PM VVanP: A new writer generally can get on panels at local or regional cons though. HOST RL Marz: And that's also a good place to meet agents and publishers. Meisha Merlin, for instance, was represented well at WindyCon this year. VVanP: Knite, if you're really interested in writing, save the bucks, make the vacation plans, and get to a WorldCon. It was a true eye-opener for me. HOST RL Marz: What other conventions do you do besides WorldCon Jim? KNITEMARE87: I am hoping to go to NasFic 2005 VVanP: ConDuit in Salt Lake City, MileHi in Denver, and then I've also been to World Fantasy and World Horror when they were close. KNITEMARE87: The only other con i have been to was about 9 or 10 years ago, a medium one in seattle VVanP: Well, World Fantasy wasn't close this year, but I went because Strangers and Beggars had just come out. VVanP: It's a strain on the budget. OnlineHost: DerHexer has entered the room. HOST RL Marz: Hello DerHexer we're chatting with James Van Pelt, author of Strangers and Beggars. DerHexer: Hi all KNITEMARE87: LOl, thats the exact reason i never make it to con DerHexer: Hi Jim HOST RL Marz: Speaking of day-gigs, Jim, you have one and yet also have 75 stories published. Do you set aside time formally... just to write? OldWolfGaidin: Hi, Der KNITEMARE87: I was going to go to orycon this year, but i had to work VVanP: I've made some great relationships at conventions. I'm friendly with several folks who I am so happy to know, particularly Connie Willis, James Patrick Kelly and Stan Schmidt. HOST RL Marz: All nice people! VVanP: Generally I write either right after my last class (1:00 now) or after 9:00 when the kids are in bed. I've also been known to write during faculty meetings. HOST RL Marz: lololololololol.... they think you're taking notes on the meeting I'm sure. VVanP: Hi, Der. HOST RL Marz: Jim... how important do you think it is to have excerpts of your work on the web? DerHexer: I'm sorry I came in late. Jim, what do you teach? VVanP: I've taken a laptop to faculty meetings and tapped away happily the whole time. HOST RL Marz: lolololol That's great. VVanP: High school and college English, Der. VVanP: I have some complete stories on the web, one at my website. I think it's nice to have something to give folks a taste. Araiused: Speaking of day gigs, I spent 12 hours today at work and tomorrow is another full day.. Araiused: Goodnight, folks! Araiused: See you soon. OldWolfGaidin: Night, Ara DerHexer: Night, Ara! OnlineHost: Araiused has left the room. KNITEMARE87: Whats you web pages UR: HOST RL Marz: It's worked like bait for me. But you wouldn't recommend putting a story up on a website before you've exhausted all possible sale markets, right? VVanP: http://www.sff.net/people/james.van.pelt HOST RL Marz: Let me throw the full topic up again... HOST RL Marz: JAMES VAN PELT - http://www.sff.net/people/james.van.pelt/ will be joining us to talk about VVanP: I would never put an unpublished work on the web. HOST RL Marz: his latest book, STRANGERS AND BEGGARS. You can read his story Parallel Highways at HOST RL Marz: http://www.sff.net/people/james.van.pelt/sample.htm His fiction has appeared in several HOST RL Marz: publications, including Analog Science Fiction and Fact, Asimov's, Realms of Fantasy, and HOST RL Marz: Weird Tales. His non-fiction work has appeared in Tangent magazine. Join HOST RL Marz to HOST RL Marz: chat with this local author. HOST RL Marz: Okay...STRANGERS AND BEGGARS is available in paperback...and you have stories on the web... and one in each of the last two issues of... HOST RL Marz: Weird Tales. HOST RL Marz: Anywhere else we can look for your work now, Jim? HOST RL Marz: Anything out on the shelves now or due out in the near future? VVanP: I have stories coming in Asimov's, The New Faces in SF antho, Dozois's Years Best SF, Talebones, Paradox, and Absolute Magnitude. HOST RL Marz: Cool...and these are all due out this year? VVanP: Barring flood or famine, I think so. Doug Stavenger: I've got to run. Thanks Marz. Thank you Mr. Van Pelt. HOST RL Marz: Excellent! HOST RL Marz: Night Doug! DerHexer: Night, Doug VVanP: I've got to call it a night too, I'm afraid. The ungraded essays are calling. KNITEMARE87: Night doug HOST RL Marz: Jim, thank you so much for joining us. OnlineHost: Doug Stavenger has left the room. KNITEMARE87: Night Jim, thanks for coming, it was fun HOST RL Marz: It's been and extremely informative chat with you tonight. VVanP: It was a pleasure, Marz. Will the chat be archived? KNITEMARE87: Yes HOST RL Marz: I look forward to hopefully meeting you at Torcon and getting your autograph. VVanP: Me too. HOST RL Marz: Yes... I'll be sending you a log toot sweet, as we say in Illinois. VVanP: Good night, then. (waving as he leaves the room) HOST RL Marz: ::::much applause:::: OnlineHost: VVanP has left the room. HOST RL Marz: Tres cool. HOST RL Marz: MONDAY, February 24, 10 PM ET HOST RL Marz: . HOST RL Marz: PATRICK WELCH - Patrick Welch has published more than forty stories in e-zines and the small press. Currently, he also has two HOST RL Marz: books available from Twilight Times Books, The Casebook of Doakes and Haig and The Thirteenth Magician. Westchester Station (a HOST RL Marz: fantasy novel) is available from Double Dragon Ebook. Other completed books include The Body Shop, Before/Beyond (an anthology of HOST RL Marz: science fiction and fantasy stories) and Brendell; Apprentice Thief. You can read excerpts of his lastest novel CYNNADOR as well as HOST RL Marz: excerpts of his other work at: http://www.sff.net/people/patrickw/ Join me to chat with this author. KNITEMARE87: Well, i gotta run. Thanks for the chat Marz HOST RL Marz: Goodnight Knite! HOST RL Marz: Thank you for coming out. KNITEMARE87: :::Drops tip in iggys jar, jumps through trap door::: HOST RL Marz: LOL OnlineHost: KNITEMARE87 has left the room. OnlineHost: Sunflowercb82 has entered the room. HOST RL Marz: Hello Sunflowercb82 we're chatting with James Van Pelt, author of Strangers and Beggars. OnlineHost: Sunflowercb82 has left the room. HOST RL Marz: Ooops sorry about that... our chat with Jim has just finished. Log Entry: Other Worlds SF Chat [Members - 5] 2/17/2003 11:00 PM HOST RL Marz: And let me remind everyone about tomorrow's chat... DerHexer: Night all HOST RL Marz: ****TUESDAY, February 18, 10PM ET**** HOST RL Marz: . HOST RL Marz: ****.~^~^~^~^~^~IN THE O*W*C~^~^~^~^~^~**** HOST RL Marz: It's Just My Job HOST RL Marz: . HOST RL Marz: Somebody has to pilot the commuter shuttle to Europa, process extraterrestrials' visa applications, and unclog the zero-gee commodes. HOST RL Marz: Golden Age SF held out the promise of careers in space during our own generation. What will it take to get us out there? Join HOST RL HOST RL Marz: Umbra in O*W*C chat for a look at blue-collar spacemen! HOST RL Marz: Night Der! OnlineHost: DerHexer has left the room. NINLILA: goodnight all! OnlineHost: NINLILA has left the room. HOST RL Marz: :::pokes OWG and Ath to see if there's any life left:::: OldWolfGaidin: Sorry, I was watching the chat wind up. Athanor IX: Huh? OldWolfGaidin: Thanks for Hosting, Marz, and for having Mr. Van Pelt here. HOST RL Marz: LOL. No problem... Okay guys....I'm going to wind up here...and thank you both for coming out to chat with him. HOST RL Marz: Great questions! OldWolfGaidin: Night, Mars, Ath [] OnlineHost: Athanor IX has left the room. OnlineHost: OldWolfGaidin has left the room. Log Entry: Other Worlds SF Chat [Members - 1] 2/17/2003 11:02 PM