OWC Mars: ***The opinions expressed in this chat are not necessarily those of The OWC Mars: Other*Worlds*Cafe or America Online.*** JShanahan: Must be my breath... OWC Mars: lol JDipale: :P OWC Mars: John I wanted to ask you a few questions about your work tonight... OWC Mars: so don't smack me if the questions I ask seem a little rudimentary okay? JShanahan: Let me strap on the armor here... JShanahan: Have at... OWC Mars: John, what made you first decide to write Fantasy, and is OWC Mars: that what you call what you write? JShanahan: I do consider it fantasy, but I look at it more as fantasy with a dark edge. JShanahan: And I'd have to say my background in roleplaying games headed me in that direction. JShanahan: Plus, I'd always loved reading Howard and the old pulp stories. JDipale: ? JShanahan: I'm a sucker for lurid prose. ;) OWC Mars: LOL...so you started out role playing... what games? JDipale: DOH! That was my question! OnlineHost: HOST EBK Astra has entered the room. HOST EBK Astra: That was interesting. JShanahan: Name it. Started with D&D, of course...Tunnels & Trolls...Runequest...even once played Bunnies & Burrows, which was based on Watership Down. JShanahan: You haven't lived until you've roleplayed a rabbit. OWC Mars: lol OWC Mars: JD are you still in queue? JDipale: STONEKEEP, Lands Of Lore III here! JDipale: If I love roleplaying games, does that mean I'll JDipale: be a writer too? JShanahan: I was writing well before I started into RPGs, actually... JDipale: . JShanahan: It's something I've done since I was a kid. JShanahan: And it's not as if I've only written genre fiction.... JDipale: Oh well, I guess I'm stuck being an auditor. JShanahan: I've written comedy, stage, television, radio, science fiction, literary fiction, journalistic pieces.... JShanahan: But if you can take something you enjoy, such a RPGs, and convert that into the written word, then you've certainly started toward becoming a writer. JDipale: Have you ever written a story with an Auditor as JDipale: the hero? HOST EBK Astra: LOLOL OWC Mars: John, did you start out writing with the intent of being a journalist or a genre writer? JDipale: I think it is about time! JShanahan: Writer in general, actually..... HOST EBK Astra: ? JShanahan: I have a need to capture imagery and sensations in words. It's a passion..... JShanahan: But I find that the relatively wide boundaries of genre writing--and particularly fantasy--are very freeing. JShanahan: Magic works because we say so. There are two moons because we say so.... JShanahan: And if the reader's going to come along, they have to accept that. JDipale: ! OWC Mars: We have a question here from jdharv-Is the market for OWC Mars: swords and sorcery fantasy improving or slacking off these OWC Mars: days JShanahan: I think for short fiction, it's dismal--save for the Internet markets.... JShanahan: Fantasy for the past decade or more has been relegated to multi-volume epics. I think that's a shame... JShanahan: One of the reasons I started writing the Cumor stories is because I missed fiction in the style of Conan--standalone adventures that readers could follow as they came out. JShanahan: Nine-book series are great moneymakers, but I always wonder why the SF market hasn't fallen into the same pit. OWC Mars: Astra...queue? HOST EBK Astra: The current Queue contains the following users: HOST EBK Astra, JDipale OWC Mars: JD..you had a comment? JDipale: JK is not here. What do you think of Harry JDipale: Potter? OnlineHost: Iog entry has entered the room. JDipale: Hmm, I guess that was a question HOST EBK Astra: Iog entry, welcome to the O*W*C - tonight OWC Mars is HOST EBK Astra: interviewing author John Shanahan! If you have a HOST EBK Astra: question or a comment for John, please type a ? HOST EBK Astra: or ! to the screen and I will add you to the queue. Iog entry: ! JShanahan: Never read them, to be honest. I read very little fantasy because I find it very "samey." JDipale: COOL! JShanahan: I've heard they might make it big some day. ;) OWC Mars: Okay... Astra... HOST EBK Astra: LOL JDipale: Iog? I thought it was Log HOST EBK Astra: What have you done for television, John? Fantasy? Drama? HOST EBK Astra: <-- keeper of the Queue, JD. Shush :) JDipale: =-O JShanahan: Heh...12 years on a weekly public access show that was seen in a 13-town radius, and two television pilots that never went anywhere. JShanahan: The access show was a comedy/variety show that was pretty well-known. I enjoyed my time there. OWC Mars: And another from jdharv-Who has influenced your writing the most? JShanahan: The pat answer is: Me. I think a writer has to be his own worst critic and best influence..... JShanahan: You've got to push yourself to be better with each piece... JShanahan: But as far as influences go, Robert E. Howard really formed my fantasy style...,. JShanahan: ...and David Gemmel's books showed me that the real strength of any story in any genre is creating characters that readers will invest in. JShanahan: Put all the fantasy trappings you want in there.... JShanahan: ...it still all comes to down to the fact that what you're writing about is how people.... JShanahan: ...deal with the situations they find themselves in. And how they deal with themselves in those situations. JShanahan: If people out here haven't read Gemmel's "Legend," they need to do so ASAP. OWC Mars: Astra... queue? HOST EBK Astra: The current Queue contains the following users: Iog entry OWC Mars: Log entry go ahead. Iog entry: Hi. HOST EBK Astra: LOLOL JDipale: Hi Log OWC Mars: You have a comment Log? HOST EBK Astra: SAWB in residence. JShanahan: Hi. JDipale: ? Iog entry: :::bows deeply::: OWC Mars: Astra? HOST EBK Astra: The current Queue contains the following users: JDipale OWC Mars: JD... go ahead. JDipale: Of the MANY different types/formats you write, JDipale: Which is hardest and easiest JShanahan: Should I be returning the bow? ;) JShanahan: Comedy comes very easily to me.... OnlineHost: Zazenlight has entered the room. HOST EBK Astra: Zazenlight, welcome to the O*W*C - tonight OWC Mars is JShanahan: If someone needs a light piece written, I'll bang it right out. A good example of my lighter genre stuff... HOST EBK Astra: interviewing author John Shanahan! If you have a JDipale: Me too, every time I get my pay check, I burst JDipale: out laughing HOST EBK Astra: question or a comment for John, please type a ? HOST EBK Astra: or ! to the screen and I will add you to the queue. JShanahan: is a story called "O'Rourke's Passenger," which you can still find... Iog entry: Nope, JS. I was merely acknowledging Astra's mention of my title....SAWB in residence. JShanahan: in the archives at Aphelion Webzine. JShanahan: Real-world writing--contemporary, non-genre stuff--comes hardest. I think I find it too mundane. Iog entry: ? JDipale: OOO, do you know the URL? JShanahan: If it doesn't fascinate me, I can't convey fascination to a reader... JShanahan: And when that happens, I lose them. JDipale: You should try writing audit reports! JShanahan: Good writing is honest, and honest writing is stuff the author can invest in personally. JShanahan: www.aphelion-webzine.com JShanahan: Very good zine, by the by. JShanahan: You should try writing feature articles about platinum casting technology. ;) OWC Mars: We have a question here from theca-did you have anyone in OWC Mars: particular who helped you get started? JShanahan: Not as far as a mentor goes, no. JShanahan: Like I said, I've always written. I remember being about 10 and working on a story about demolition derby drivers. OWC Mars: Platinum casting technology? Isn't that what OWC Mars: Hollyweird refers to as the casting couch? JShanahan: I counted on myself to develop a style and to figure out what was good and what was bad. JShanahan: From there, it was sending writing out. If it got rejected, well....that helps a writer develop, too. OWC Mars: Astra? HOST EBK Astra: The current Queue contains the following users: Iog entry JShanahan: Someone get Dave a rimshot...on me, please. ;) OWC Mars: Log entry go ahead. Iog entry: Negated query = Do you have the URL for that particular story or 'zine? Thanks anyway, Iog entry: looking for the story right now. OWC Mars: lol, john. OWC Mars: Thanks Log. Astra? HOST EBK Astra: Go Fish :) OWC Mars: It was, admittedly, a long stretch for that one, John. OWC Mars: Okay...we have another from jdharv-Do you prefer to write long or short fiction? JShanahan: I wanted to say that the best way for a writer to develop is simply to do it. And do it. And do it. And, again, keep a very self-critical eye on their work. Iog entry: ! JShanahan: I have no long fiction in me! LOL. My top is about 40k. JShanahan: I like short story writing for the pacing. My short pieces tend to run about 5k or so. JShanahan: I'm a little windy a times... JShanahan: I haven't really developed a sense of the kind of pacing a novel requires. JShanahan: I don't do short-shorts, but I'd have to say that shorter fiction is my strong suit. OWC Mars: Astra? HOST EBK Astra: The current Queue contains the following users: Iog entry OWC Mars: Go for it Log Iog entry: http://www2.aphelion-webzine.com/authors/ShanahanJohnC.html is the link to your stuff at Iog entry: Aphelion. I am enjoying O'ROURKE' PASSENGER very much right now.\ Iog entry: +S JShanahan: Thank you. I love that story. I intend to write another at some point. Iog entry: !! JShanahan: (Another with O'Rourke, that is...) HOST EBK Astra: The current Queue contains the following users: Iog entry Iog entry: Do I have to make birdie on three consecutive holes to get more good stuff like this soon? JShanahan: LOL. No, I just have to find my ass's gearshift. Iog entry: LOLOL OWC Mars: LOLOLOLOL HOST EBK Astra: Hmm. OKay :) JShanahan: And thank you for the compliment! A writer can't hear it enough. Iog entry: !!! OWC Mars: Go ahead Log. Iog entry: A reader can't read enough stuff like this. JShanahan: And now, I shall blush profusely. OWC Mars: jdharv-Is it true you used to edit an online ezine called The Grimoire. What was tht like? JShanahan: Mr. Harv knows exacly what that was like. Um...it was an experience. I'll not put myself through it again, but it was an experience. OWC Mars: Thanks John. John...I've noticed something about your work OWC Mars: that is different from many fantasists...current fantasists that OWC Mars: is... OWC Mars: and that is your attention to the detail of setting. Is this OWC Mars: something you learned in school or via trial and error? JShanahan: I'd say trial and error... OnlineHost: Techyo has entered the room. JShanahan: I tend to be very cinematic in the way I write. HOST EBK Astra: Techyo, welcome to the O*W*C - tonight OWC Mars is HOST EBK Astra: interviewing author John Shanahan! If you have a HOST EBK Astra: question or a comment for John, please type a ? HOST EBK Astra: or ! to the screen and I will add you to the queue. JShanahan: Mentally, I've got camera angles going on as I lay down a scene... JShanahan: I think much of it stems from television and also stage (I did a bit of it). It's the way I see things as I go along. JShanahan: But this goes back to "investment.".. JShanahan: If an author can't immerse himself in the scene and capture it in heavy detail, he can't bring the reader along properly. Techyo: ? JShanahan: A writer's job is to remove the reader from their chair and suck them, body and soul, into the story. JShanahan: Part of that comes from capturing details. I tend to be very visceral and sensualistic in my writing. I'm concerned with conveying a tactile sense to the words. JShanahan: When people lift their heads from my stories, I want there to be an audible POP as they come back to the real world. OWC Mars: I think I'm in love. John... are you planning on doing any OWC Mars: conventions in the near future? JShanahan: Sadly, no. I intend instead to languish in obscurity and die of consumption like Lawrence. I find the idea terribly romantic. ;) OWC Mars: LOLOL JDipale: LOL OWC Mars: Astra... queue? HOST EBK Astra: The current Queue contains the following users: Techyo Techyo: Speaking of screen why do you think some book authors transfer better to screen than others? ga OWC Mars: Go ahead Techyo. JShanahan: If someone invites me to a con, I'll show. JShanahan: I think it's hard--very hard--to transfer a book to the screen well. Writing can more easily convey inner life. JShanahan: I look at Silence of the Lambs as an example.... JShanahan: In the movie, you never understand that Lecter retains much of what little sanity he's got through his mental prowess.... Iog entry: ! JShanahan: The fact that he can recall, in his mind, a stroll throught the Louvre or a symphony note for note...Harris makes it very clear in the book JShanahan: and it brings an odd humanity to Lecter. JShanahan: Fact is: when you write, you leave details and images up to the reader. When you film, you make concrete decisions about how something looks. JShanahan: And imagination is always--ALWAYS--the more effective tool. OWC Mars: We have a question here from Barry... Is franchise fiction OWC Mars: (Star Wars, Trek, Etc) hurting or helping genre fiction OWC Mars: markets? Are they robbing authors who write good stand OWC Mars: alone novels? JShanahan: Well, again, in fantasy there are no more good standalone novels because the industry doesn't want them. JShanahan: I think that franchise fiction--and this is just my opinion--helps because it can bring readers into a genre. JShanahan: If I enjoy a Star Trek book, I may be more likely to reach for a Greg Bear novel. Or if someone sees me reading one JShanahan: and recommends Ender's Game, I may be more likely to try it because I know I like the style. JShanahan: For fantasy....ugh. JShanahan: One of the reasons I like Gemmel is because for so long, he wrote standalone novels. JShanahan: And they're great. But his latest work is a trilogy. JShanahan: I think readers would love a novel they didn't have to invest half a lifetime in (did someone say "Jordan"?). But the industry doesn't want standalone fantays. JShanahan: I blame Stephen Donaldson. ;) OWC Mars: Astra? HOST EBK Astra: Go fish for squid :) OnlineHost: Athanor IX has entered the room. HOST EBK Astra: Athanor IX, welcome to the O*W*C - tonight OWC Mars is HOST EBK Astra: interviewing author John Shanahan! If you have a Athanor IX: Hi. HOST EBK Astra: question or a comment for John, please type a ? HOST EBK Astra: or ! to the screen and I will add you to the queue. OWC Mars: Okay... we have one here from davekuz-Do you every collaborate with other authors? JShanahan: I did once, for an online project that never got off the ground. JShanahan: I co-wrote a story with Weston Ochse, without knowing it was him. It was interesting. JDipale: Hi Ath JShanahan: Beyond that, I haven't tried it. I don't feel I've laid out enough of my own stuff yet. OWC Mars: And one from jdharv-Tell us a bit about the writing of THEIVES. HOST EBK Astra: Mars, I have been reprimanded that I missed an *!* by log entry. OWC Mars: That's the story that can be downloaded from OWC Mars: http://www.cybling.com/artists/shanahan.html btw. JShanahan: I wrote Thieves years ago and still haven't managed to get it published. OnlineHost: Araiused has entered the room. JShanahan: Something in the writing of it demanded present tense, and editors can't get past that aspect of it. HOST EBK Astra: Araiused, welcome to the O*W*C - tonight OWC Mars is HOST EBK Astra: interviewing author John Shanahan! If you have a HOST EBK Astra: question or a comment for John, please type a ? HOST EBK Astra: or ! to the screen and I will add you to the queue. Araiused: Evening JShanahan: I think readers will enjoy it--and historically have--because there's an honesty in it, part of which is this weird conviction to having it present tense. JShanahan: It makes the story, I feel, more intense, more immediate. OWC Mars: Astra? HOST EBK Astra: The current Queue contains the following users: Iog entry OWC Mars: I found the story compelling. JShanahan: I do hope people will get the story and let me know what they think. JShanahan: Thank you. OWC Mars: Log go ahead JShanahan: Some of the characters in Thieves reappear in one of the Cumor stories. Iog entry: ::::POP!::: I never thought I'd be enjoying a game of virtual golf in space, JS. Iog entry: Thanks. JShanahan: Glad you liked it! JShanahan: Clearly, the world needs more of O'Rourke. ;) Iog entry: Indeed. OWC Mars: Folks...we've kept Shanahan in the hot seat now for an hour... Iog entry: ? Araiused: ? JDipale: ? OWC Mars: Astra? HOST EBK Astra: The current Queue contains the following users: Iog entry, Araiused, JDipale Techyo: :::jumps up and runs wildly around room::: OWC Mars: Go ahead Log. Araiused: Sit, Tech! JShanahan: Fire 'em up. Araiused: :: looking at log ::: Iog entry: Is it as difficult a task as I imagine, to write short, funny fiction like the O'rourke Iog entry: series? OWC Mars: Go ahead Log. Techyo: :::places log on fire::: Iog entry: Please note that I said "series". :::menacing look:::\ JShanahan: That came pretty easily, actually. (Not to sound flip!) JShanahan: As I said, comedy is one of my strong suits. Iog entry: Yeah. It goes with the big floppy shoes pretty well. JShanahan: The funny thing is, the mention of golf at the beginning and the ending of the story (I don't want to give it away) weren't planned. HOST EBK Astra: ::: lights log's fire ::: Araiused: LOLOL Techyo: JS it was nice meeting you but I'm gona have to read the log, Take care ALL! HOST EBK Astra: Night Tech :) Thanks. Araiused: See ya, Tech! JDipale: bye Tech OWC Mars: Later Tech! JShanahan: The connection came as I was out walking, trying to figure out how to end the story. Araiused: :: expecting log fury any minute ::: OWC Mars: Go ahead Ara. Araiused: Where do you get your ideas? OWC Mars: Ba-da-boom-ba-da-bang! Iog entry: :::smoldering::: JShanahan: And as far as series....could be. :) JShanahan: Everywhere. JShanahan: Everything that goes on around a writer is a potential idea. JShanahan: I published a story once based on riding an elevator and noticing that between certain floors, the floor indicator was an "X." Araiused: No kidding! JShanahan: You look around, you take it in, and then you ask "What if?" JShanahan: Go from there. Good writing is a product of extrapolation. HOST EBK Astra: Elevator? ::: perk ::: OWC Mars: Tell 'em the truth about the idea clearinghouse in New Jersey... JShanahan: Every normal situation can be rendered abnormal--and therefore genre--with a single twist. OWC Mars: Astra? Iog entry: lol Kuz HOST EBK Astra: The current Queue contains the following users: JDipale OWC Mars: JD go ahead. JDipale: Sorry, no question. I saw everybody putting in a JDipale: "?" and I got caught up in the excitement! JShanahan: Yeah. The story was called "Between Floors" and it ran in a Not One of Us annual. Araiused: :: thwapping JD ::: OWC Mars: lol JDipale: :-P JShanahan: I think (think) you can nab a look at www.angelfire.com/ma/mrshanahan/floors.html JShanahan: Might still be there. JShanahan: Dave, don't make me drive over there. OWC Mars: jdharv-What is your current writing project? JShanahan: Trying to write. :D JShanahan: My book, Cumor: A Warrior of D'Alshon, is coming at some indeterminate time from The Fiction Works. Iog entry: !! JShanahan: It's a collection of fantasy short stories very much in the style of classic S&S and pulp stories. JShanahan: Beyond that, I'm trying to redirect my writing and find the style I'm comfortable with now. OnlineHost: DerHexer has entered the room. DerHexer: Hi all HOST EBK Astra: DerHexer, welcome to the O*W*C - tonight OWC Mars is HOST EBK Astra: interviewing author John Shanahan! If you have a HOST EBK Astra: question or a comment for John, please type a ? HOST EBK Astra: or ! to the screen and I will add you to the queue. Araiused: Hi, Der JShanahan: But given some of the responses here, more fantasy and perhaps an O'Rourke story may be in the offering. JDipale: Der! JShanahan: Nothing inspires like praise. ;) OWC Mars: Astra? HOST EBK Astra: Empty hook, Mars :) OWC Mars: Log..you had a comment? Iog entry: Yup. Still there. Almost makes me want to get on an elevator. HOST EBK Astra: ::: rolls eyes ::: JShanahan: I should also mention my infrequent newspaper column. You can find links to it on my web site at www.angelfire.com/ma/mrshanahan OWC Mars: Folks...let's take a moment and thank John Shanahan for joining us tonight...and John... OWC Mars: Do you think that a writing campaign to your publisher might get your... OnlineHost: STARMOM79 has entered the room. HOST EBK Astra: STARMOM79, welcome to the O*W*C - tonight OWC Mars is HOST EBK Astra: interviewing author John Shanahan! If you have a OWC Mars: CUMOR collection out a little faster? HOST EBK Astra: question or a comment for John, please type a ? HOST EBK Astra: or ! to the screen and I will add you to the queue. Araiused: Hi, STAR! JDipale: well, I must be going now. Have a good evening JDipale: everybody STARMOM79: Hi all Araiused: Thank you, John Araiused: Goodnight, Jd! DerHexer: Nite JD STARMOM79: Hi and Bye, JD HOST EBK Astra: Night JD! OWC Mars: Night JD. JShanahan: I'd hope so. If people want to pester the folks at the Fiction Works, tell them you heard about the book here and you'd like to see it...SOOON. OWC Mars: Okay folks.... let's thank John for joining us here tonight! JShanahan: Go to www.fictionworks.com and tell them you need to read Cumor: A Warrior of D'Alshon. HOST EBK Astra: ::: applause :::: DerHexer: Thanks, John Iog entry: Thanks, JS! I enjoyed the two stories of yours that I read this evening. JShanahan: Thank you all. JShanahan: I enjoyed this immensely! OWC Mars: We'll just have to get you back out here when CUMOR becomes available then! JShanahan: Please do. Araiused: Yaaaay! JShanahan: Thanks folks... goodnight! DerHexer: Nite JS Araiused: Goodnight, John ************ END OF INTERVIEW**************** Araiused: ::: stretching legs ::: OWC Mars: Well that was very interesting.... OWC Mars: I think I'm in love. HOST EBK Astra: ::: cue music ::: Araiused: woohoo, Mar Araiused: Mars Araiused: ::: coiling in bean bag :::: OWC Mars: LOL...well you really do have to check out his fiction. The guy can sling word. HOST EBK Astra: ::: somersaulting ::: OWC Mars: And while I have you undivided attention... OWC Mars: FRIDAY, NOV 30, 9pm-11pm ET -- Plutonian Rights? Stop Quadraped Testing? OWC Mars: The future is built on today's desire to change, so what will the future's causes celebre be? Araiused: I hope Astra didn't dent the walls. OWC Mars: Bring your picket PADDs as HOST EBK Mystik and SF General explore SF Activism. OWC Mars: THEN OWC Mars: FRIDAY, NOV 30, 10pm-12am ET -- With all the changes in our world -- OWC Mars: political, social, economic, and scientific -- what will it be like for us, as OWC Mars: people, to live in the future? What will the human condition be like? Join OWC Mars: HOST EBK Astra for a discussion on Anthropology of the Future. STARMOM79: I just stopped by to see what you all were up to. I'm kinda tired so I'm going to bed. DerHexer: Nite STAR OWC Mars: And you'll be happy to know that next week's guest actually has work on the web AND in OWC Mars: paperback which is available from Amazon now. OWC Mars: Night Star! OWC Mars: Next Week: November 29 - KEN WHARTON OWC Mars: Ken Wharton is an experimental physicist who has played with some very OWC Mars: expensive toys, including the most powerful laser in the world. Fortunately, he DerHexer: I want to thank everyone who urged me to read Perdido Street Station. Very good book OWC Mars: channels most of his mad scientist tendencies into writing hard SF. OWC Mars: Wharton's eBook Boltzmann's Ghost is available now via Eggplant-Productions OWC Mars: and you can read an excerpt there via links below. His first novel, "Divine OWC Mars: Intervention," has been published by Ace Science Fiction and is available now OWC Mars: from Amazon.com OWC Mars: ****************** OWC Mars: http://www.CYBLING.com/artists/wharton.html OWC Mars: So how was everyone's Turkey day? Have calamari anyone? Araiused: At last we agreed, Der! DerHexer: Wow, this place cleared out fast OWC Mars: Shanahan gives good interview...lot's to chew on. Araiused: :: looking out of window ::: Araiused: Still snowing. DerHexer: I'll have to look for Shanahan and Wharton OWC Mars: Is it snowing up there yet....lol. OWC Mars: I guess you answered my question before I asked it, Ara. Araiused: LOL, Mars, yup DerHexer: Well, there's nothing between Canada and the North Pole but Eskimos and barbed wire OWC Mars: I've already ordered DIVINE INTERVENTION... Wharton's book, Der. Araiused: And pipe lines, Der OWC Mars: I've heard from a friend of mine, Barry Hunter (who does reviews) that the book is quite OWC Mars: funny. Iog entry: Wow. Even JS's daily monograph has power. The guy can write convincingly, IMO. DerHexer: Forgot about those vital pipelines OWC Mars: I know Log. I'm looking forward to reading his treatise on a paticular chinese dish. OWC Mars: He has a whole website devoted to it. OWC Mars: You gotta love someone who loves General Somebodyorother's Chicken. Araiused: What's his website again? Iog entry: http://www.angelfire.com/ma/mrshanahan/ OWC Mars: Thank you log. OnlineHost: Gandalara has entered the room. Araiused: I'm nursing a headache right now. Gandalara: Yo yo :) OWC Mars: I find it interesting that he started writing in RPGS.... OWC Mars: Hi Gand. Araiused: Hey, Gand! Iog entry: hi Gand Araiused: So, I'm resting my eyes and not read at the moment. DerHexer: General Gao's Chicken - syrupy spicy batter, deep fried and brocolli OWC Mars: That probably explains why the OWC Mars: reality he creates is so convincing... OWC Mars: e had plenty of practice making realities in the rpgs. DerHexer: What is RPGS?? Araiused: Role playing, Der Iog entry: Eeek. aka General Tso's chicken. A formidable adversary, in my recent experience. Araiused: LOL, log OWC Mars: www.angelfire.com/ma/mrshanahan/gao.htm (Keyword to: http://www.angelfire.com/ma/mrshanahan/gao.htm) OWC Mars: Why is my mouth watering. Araiused: There must've been something in the batter, log Araiused: You've been fasting, Mars? OWC Mars: Or something in the Log, batter. OWC Mars: lol, no. OWC Mars: But I've not been eating adventurously lately either. OWC Mars: Going out for something other than hamburgers takes time, and x-mas is a coming. OWC Mars: I found these cute little patterns for sweaters and another for socks and I've gotten OWC Mars: a little "retentive" about knitting. Araiused: Yeah, the time of the pocketbook crunch. OWC Mars: A craft, btw, I believe will survive space travel. Araiused: Knitting is your next adventure, Mars? DerHexer: According to the Shrub, you'd better be patriotic and spend 'til you drop Araiused: Yeah, knit your time away to Mars. OWC Mars: Current adventure, Ara, but I was striving there to impress upon you that knitting too can OWC Mars: be SF. LOL. Gandalara: Woolie socks with little spaceships on them :) OWC Mars: I'd be patriotic if the Shrub would give me an allowance. Araiused: LOL, Gand DerHexer: If you are REALLY patriotic, you'll sacrifice, Janice OWC Mars: As it is, if we are related, Georgie has disowned my side of the family, so it's socks for OWC Mars: xmas. Iog entry: He's trying, Mars. But Comrade Daschle knows that you can't be trusted with the money you Iog entry: earn. OWC Mars: LOLOLOLOL. Araiused: LOL, log Athanor IX: Rumsfeld wants to eliminate 4 carrier battle groups from the Navy, and at least one armored division from the Army. DerHexer: They wanted to raise money to teach cosmic enlightenment and love Iog entry: I hadn't heard that, Ath. Your source? Athanor IX: Sci.military.naval. OWC Mars: Ahem. OWC Mars: I'm just wondering how valid that newsgroup is as a source. Araiused: humm humm OWC Mars: Actually, I'm not to sure on the validity of most News Groups... Iog entry: I think I'll just ask my brother. He works in the Pentagon alongside Rumsfeld. OWC Mars: but then I don't take what I read in the papers as gospel either. DerHexer: There might be some value in that. Conflict is becoming low level and the military is moving toward small fast cheap forces Athanor IX: SMN usually has a small moron contingent, and a sizable group of knowledgable posters. Athanor IX: Small fast cheap forces are likely to wind up dead dead dead if they have to face a formidable adversary. DerHexer: An armored division is a bitch to move. We had to use most of the US merchant and air fleets to ramp up for Desert STorm OWC Mars: Moderation in all things is what I always say. Athanor IX: Better to have expensive hard to replace forces so moron politicians don't get lulled into thinking of them as expendable. Araiused: Conflict becoming low level now??? DerHexer: What formidable adversary, Ath? Armies are very expensive, and no one has that kind of money Athanor IX: Someone will turn up. Red China, for instance. OWC Mars: Well you know, we *used* to have that kind of money and I have to wonder where it all went DerHexer: Moron politicians expend hard to replace forces - look at Vietnam Iog entry: Watch out for General Tso!! Araiused: And his chickens, log :) Athanor IX: McNamara was an intelligent man. OWC Mars: Since the conversation has turned military... has anyone read any good military SF OWC Mars: recently that they can recommend to me? DerHexer: Really, Ath, then why did we get our butts kicked out? Araiused: Remember, Vietnam had the backing of the Soviet Union and China. DerHexer: Mars, I;ev always liked Pouernelle and his Falkenberg series Iog entry: The US did not commit fully to victory. Period. Gandalara: 1632, Mars. By Eric Flint. It's in PB :) Athanor IX: Because McN was a fool. Athanor IX: LBJ too. OWC Mars: YOu know I met him at Windycon Gand. OnlineHost: Patterner has entered the room. DerHexer: log, the US couldn't frame what victory would be like in Vietnam Araiused: Intelligent and a fool, hmmmm OWC Mars: You know he used to be a union organizer? Patterner: Hi folks! DerHexer: Hi Patt Gandalara: Read the book. You'll crack up :) OWC Mars: Hi Patt. Patterner: Hi Gand! Hi Ara! Hi Ath! Hi Der! Hi Iog! Hi Patterner: Mars! Araiused: Hi, Patt! Iog entry: Mmm. Carpet bombing. OWC Mars: I'll have to get the book then. He was writing it...what was that 4 years ago now? Gandalara: That's the only part of the book that bugged me, Mars. It was very union-ized. Gandalara: <--- HATES unions. OWC Mars: Well you know what they say... write what you know. OWC Mars: Gand... my Mom was a teamster. But I won't hold that against you. Pros and cons on OWC Mars: that whole issue.A Araiused: ahem, Mars, SF is writing about *unknown* worlds. Gandalara: But he doesn't bog down in details too much, like Stirling can and does. OWC Mars: So Ara, are you saying that 1632 isn't sf? Iog entry: "So airport security is now federalized? Great. Incompetent *and* they can strike for higher Iog entry: wages." - Leno DerHexer: Is 1632 SF? If there a science fiction piece or concept in it? OWC Mars: True, Ara... but you have to fill in the little bits between the extrapolation with OWC Mars: convincing scenes and dialogue, don't you? OWC Mars: What say you Gand? Is it SF or alternate history/reality? Gandalara: Der, a chunk of Appalachia get thrown back to 1632. DerHexer: I don't think Turtledove's Great War series is SF Araiused: I'm saying that "writing about you know" is not what SF is. Iog entry: How could they tell? DerHexer: OK, then 1632 sounds like SF Gandalara: Explained in the book, aliens did it, but aliens aren't in the book. OWC Mars: Der...but would you consider the Colonization series by Turtledove to be SF? Gandalara: log, they get thrown back to *Europe* 1632 :) DerHexer: Yes, I would, Mars. There's the concept of alien invasion - an SF staple OWC Mars: Ara, I'll concede that Science Fiction, by it's definition is an extrapolation of known OWC Mars: science and theories and so the base of the story is not "known"... DerHexer: During the Thirty Years War. That would be *interesting* OWC Mars: but I'm also contending that without using things that you know from everyday life... you OWC Mars: can't write all the bits and pieces that go around the extrapolation. OnlineHost: T83BIRD has entered the room. DerHexer: Hi T83 Araiused: Hi, T! Gandalara: Der, it's a real fast fun read. Gandalara: Hi T OWC Mars: He T83! OWC Mars: We're doing a little Post Shanahan chat here on Military SF. DerHexer: I'll read it after Shanahan, Wharton and Mieville Iog entry: Thanks for a cool chat with a great author, Mars. goodnight. OWC Mars: Mieville? DerHexer: Nite log OWC Mars: Goodnight Log. Araiused: Goodnight, log OWC Mars: Thanks...glad you like his work. Gandalara: Night log :) Araiused: Author of Perdido, Mars T83BIRD: This is my backup puter again. Main won't let me get online. AOL T.Supp. was no help. DerHexer: Mieville wrote Perdido Street Station OWC Mars: Okay...everyone's been talking about Perdido. I'm assuming it's good because of the raves. OWC Mars: Is it military SF or something else? Araiused: Perdido is not for everyone ;) Araiused: Steampunk, Mars DerHexer: I would not dis-recommend it, Mars Patterner: Hi T8! Araiused: Maybe it's the modem, T. OWC Mars: Okay...I don't know that I've ever read Steampunk. Nearest would be some of T83BIRD: Hi Patt OWC Mars: Turtledove's fantasy... OWC Mars: where dragons stand in for airplanes, etc. Patterner: I have a brand new monitor -- 19" is *really* Patterner: big! Shadow and I both went Wow! after he Patterner: brought it in and I booted it up. OWC Mars: Or perhaps THE TWO GEORGES. T83BIRD: Dunno, Ara. It worked fine last time.\ Gandalara: ::: holds Perdido out in front, and kicks away ::: My opinion :) Araiused: See? :) Patterner: What about Swanwick's The Iron Dragon? Also Patterner: dragons like planes. OWC Mars: LOL. T83BIRD: Tonight it kept saying the access nos. were busy, Ara. Araiused: Which brand, Patt? OWC Mars: I see, Ara. OWC Mars: That's interesting T83.... I can't say that I've ever had that problem :::knocking OWC Mars: on wood::: Gandalara: Mars, did you ever finish the Heechee series? Patterner: A KDS -- I asked on rasff when the old one Patterner: died yesterday and several people recommended Patterner: it. I bought it online last night from Office Patterner: Depot and went to pick it up today. Then Patterner: Shadow came to carry it in. Athanor IX: Perdido is steampunk, but not in the Flintstones mode. OWC Mars: Yes I did and enjoyed it immensely Gand. T83BIRD: LOL Mars Patterner: Only $230 and it's very nice. OWC Mars: I am very glad that I bought the whole series via eBay and read it all. Araiused: How's the new kitty? OWC Mars: Now, the next time I run into Pohl at a convention I can thank him profusely for it. Patterner: Still unhappy about being in the guest bathroom, Patterner: but no longer full of fleas. ;) DerHexer: Heechee series was good, but Pohl should have stopped after Heechee Rendezvous Gandalara: Now go find the Jaran series. 4 books in all. By Kate Elliott :) Araiused: Maybe faulty phone line, T. OWC Mars: Why so Der? T83BIRD: Why, Der? OWC Mars: And why the Jaran series, Gand. Is it along a similar vein? T83BIRD: Ara, this puter is on the same phone line. Gandalara: In the mood you're in, read it :) DerHexer: Because the works after that were not well written - like he had scraped the bottom of the barrell. OWC Mars: 8^7 OWC Mars: Thank you Gand. DerHexer: Like what Herbert did with Dune, or Asimov with Foundation Gandalara: You'll think it's a SF/fantasy/romance, and then the aliens show up :) OWC Mars: Ah...Der... you feel that Pohl took the series too far and too long and the story thread OWC Mars: became too thin. OWC Mars: Well, that sounds like a good idea then Gand. OWC Mars: Thank you... Jaran series. I'll make a note. DerHexer: Well put, mars OWC Mars: Thank you Der. OWC Mars: Just reiterated what I thought you said for verification. Araiused: It had an SF romance flavour, Gand :) OWC Mars: That was the question I was going to ask Shanahan tonight that I didn't get to... wanted OWC Mars: to know if he every wrote any SF or Fantasy romances. OWC Mars: His prose is so strong. T83BIRD: Der, the *superior* aliens valued noncorporeality and let humans and Heechee survive 'cause one human chose it. OWC Mars: I have a feeling he could tackle just about any sub-genre. Gandalara: You only read the first one, Ara. Galactic Empires after the horseback riding! :) Araiused: Ahah, Gand :) OWC Mars: LOL, so something for everyone then. Gandalara: I still need to read his story, to get the golfing joke from earlier :/ DerHexer: Not disageeing, T83. But, I think that Pohl should have stopped after the 3rd book. Instead, he scraped up some shorts OWC Mars: Okay...Turtledove and Flint are the only authors of military SF I've heard so far tonight. OWC Mars: Any other books or authors in that vein to recommend? Gandalara: Moon, of course. OWC Mars: Elizabeth Moon? DerHexer: SM Stirling Araiused: Weber Patterner: LMB OWC Mars: LMB? Gandalara: Drake DerHexer: Who wrote the Hammers Slammers series - David Drake? T83BIRD: Stirling seems almost to admire the Draka. OWC Mars: Eric Drake? Gandalara: Pournelle OWC Mars: Oh... I tried one of the Draka novels. I just couldn't do it. Araiused: Haldeman DerHexer: Maybe thats why he comes off as a jerk, T83 Athanor IX: Stirling has issues. T83BIRD: I don't like his work either, Der. Araiused: Stirling served in the Canadian Air Force OWC Mars: I have trouble sticking with a book where the main characters are constantly inciting me OWC Mars: to homocide...o Gandalara: I love Stirling's Nantucket series. Have never read the Draka books. OWC Mars: or would that be characteracide. Patterner: Lois McMaster Bujold. Her Vorkosigan saga is Patterner: about half military Sf. OWC Mars: Know I'm in trouble when I was to get out the eraser and have at a book. Gandalara: bookacide, Mars :) OWC Mars: Thanks Patt. OWC Mars: LOL, thanks Gand. DerHexer: Wonder if a Draka society would be stable over the long term? Doesn't seem to have many posiutive aspects OWC Mars: That's quite a few names for me to pick from folks...thanks. Gandalara: Heck, if ya want military, read Starship Troopers! T83BIRD: Der, the Draka are worse than the Nazis. OWC Mars: Well yes. That is a long time favorite of mine. That and THE MOON IS A HARSH MISTRESS. DerHexer: If you want military, try the Lensmen T83BIRD: Staying a little bit, but thanks for what chat I could get here for, Mars. OWC Mars: I still like the idea of impromptu judges, immediate penalties and rocks catapulted OWC Mars: through space. OWC Mars: T83... the log of Shanahan's chat tonight is a definate downloadable. He gives great OWC Mars: interview. OWC Mars: I do have to look for the Lensman series, Der. Thanks for reminding me. T83BIRD: Thanks, Mars. First I'll have to find out tomorrow what's wrong with my main puter again.\ OWC Mars: I keep kicking myself that I never got to those books in my early years of Golden Age OWC Mars: reading. DerHexer: Mars, its coming back in print in hardcover. Araiused: Just use your backup, T OWC Mars: Really! Via whom, Der? T83BIRD: Ok, Ara. Gandalara: Not military, but for another real fun read, get Pat Murphy's There and Back Again. But Gandalara: don't get her Wild Angel. Araiused: Um, Mars, there are now windows here but portholes :) OWC Mars: Now Pat Murphy is a hoot. I'll never forget that blimp of hers at Chicon. Gandalara: LOL Ara Araiused: Now = no OWC Mars: She had the entire Green room running around with that silly thing. OWC Mars: Why not Wild Angel, Gand? DerHexer: Don't recall, Mars, but I saw it at Borders. It had reprints of the original illustraytions OWC Mars: Okay...so I can go to Borders to get the Lensman series. That's superb. Gandalara: It's a replay of Tarzan and Jungle Book. No ... SF ... at ... all. OWC Mars: I wasn't looking forward to the exhorbinant prices I'd have to pay collectors for books I OWC Mars: couldn't then afford to read. OWC Mars: Okay, gand, but you say THERE AND BACK AGAIN is good? Gandalara: Wunnerful, wunnerful A real hoot to read :) Patterner: THERE AND BACK AGAIN is a retelling of The Patterner: Hobbit. OWC Mars: Okay. I could use a real Hoot for a real Hoot. DerHexer: You can find the lensmen series in paperback, but you have to hunt for it Gandalara: It's a play on the Hobbit. In space. OWC Mars: Sounds like fun and extremely appropriate what with THE LORD OF THE RINGS coming out soon. Araiused: Well, folks, I've to give my head a rest. OWC Mars: Well folks... Araiused: See ya later! Gandalara: Night Ara OWC Mars: It's been a grand and wonderful chat tonight. Patterner: Thanks, Mars! Good chat! DerHexer: Nite Ara OWC Mars: And remember... Patterner: See y'all tomorrow! T83BIRD: Nite ara\ Gandalara: Thanks, Mars. Gee, what's tomorrow? OWC Mars: Next Week: November 29 - KEN WHARTON OWC Mars: Ken Wharton is an experimental physicist who has played with some very OWC Mars: expensive toys, including the most powerful laser in the world. Fortunately, he OWC Mars: channels most of his mad scientist tendencies into writing hard SF. OWC Mars: Wharton's eBook Boltzmann's Ghost is available now via Eggplant-Productions DerHexer: CYA OWC Mars: and you can read an excerpt there via links below. His first novel, "Divine OWC Mars: Intervention," has been published by Ace Science Fiction and is available now OWC Mars: from Amazon.comnd OWC Mars: ****************** OWC Mars: http://www.CYBLING.com/artists/wharton.html T83BIRD: Nite Mars, leavers. OWC Mars: And...that date is wrong sorry...that's next Thursday. OWC Mars: Night folks! Gandalara: Night all! OWC Mars: :::me leaps onto broom::: OWC Mars: :::me leaps off of broom to open window::: OWC Mars: :::leaps back onto broom::: OWC Mars: lol OWC Mars: :::flies away:::: Log Entry: Other Worlds SF Chat [Members - 3] 11/29/01 11:04 PM