OWC Mars:	***The opinions expressed in this chat are
OWC Mars:	not necessarily those of The
OWC Mars:	Other*Worlds*Cafe or America Online.***
OWC Mars:	Folks, I'd like to introduce Dave Kuzminski,
OWC Mars:	editor of Preditor's and Editors and our special
OWC Mars:	guest tonight.  Dave, can you tell us a little
OWC Mars:	about your website?
JDipale:	Hi Dave!
OWC Mars:	<DaveKuz> Preditors & Editors (tm) has been in operation for over four years now.
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> Until today, we were on the SFWA
OWC Mars:	server, but we've moved to two new locations.
OWC Mars:	The one at
OWC Mars:	http://www.anotherealm.com/prededitors is
OWC Mars:	our primary site.
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> The one at http://www.invirtuo.cc/prededitors is our mirror site.
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> Unlike most sites, P&E is updated on nearly a daily basis.
JDipale:	How come I can't see Dave?
OWC Mars:	He's on Cybling JD.  I'm pulling his answers in for you.
JDipale:	E!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> The only times it isn't is when the
OWC Mars:	server is down due to weather or other
OWC Mars:	circumstances beyond our control.
E cat s:	JD :)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
JDipale:	Cybling?  What's That?
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> One of the best things about P&E
OWC Mars:	is the fact that it dares to give
OWC Mars:	recommendations. Many sites will state that
OWC Mars:	writers should beware of agents who charge
OWC Mars:	up front, but they don't go beyond that.
OWC Mars:	Dave... so you started Preditors & Editors 4 years ago.  What prompted you to do this?
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> At the time, I was operating a
T83BIRD:	Hey, all.
OWC Mars:	writing workshop for Prodigy and recognized a
OWC Mars:	need for a site listing resources.
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> That was how P&E came to be. I created it for the writers and it just grew.
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> That ties in with why P&E became a prime site for info on who to avoid.
OWC Mars:	Thanks Dave
HOST EBK Astra:	Hi E! Hi T!
OWC Mars:	Baryon> What other things are on your site in additon to the warnings and recommendations?
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> Writers asked and I gave names.
OWC Mars:	Consequently, I decided that P&E should list
OWC Mars:	everyone, including the questionable
OWC Mars:	businesses serving writers, but give them
OWC Mars:	negative recommendations.
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> That's how the "Preditors" portions of the name came to be.
T83BIRD:	? 
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> P&E offers listings of literary and
OWC Mars:	screen agents, screenwriting resources,
OWC Mars:	writing resources, promotional sites,
OWC Mars:	publications, publishers...
T83BIRD:	Dave, I think my verse space opera spoof, OUR ORBIT, may be hard to market.  Any suggestions?
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> music resources, art resources, editing services and software...
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> and there's still more to be found there.
OWC Mars:	ododo> Do you evalutate everything yourself or rely a bit on others?
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> P&E holds over 200 pages worth of
OWC Mars:	material. It would take a full-sized book to
OWC Mars:	hold that much information and P&E is all free.
HOST EBK Astra:	The current Queue contains the following users: T83BIRD
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> I try to evaluate everything personally.
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> If a recommendation is made, that is a must.
OWC Mars:	Astra...queue.
HOST EBK Astra:	The current Queue contains the following users: T83BIRD
OWC Mars:	T8...please resend your question 8^D
T83BIRD:	Dave, I suspect my verse space opera spoof, OUR ORBIT, may be hard to market.  Any suggestions?
OWC Mars:	Good question T8e.
T83BIRD:	thx Mars
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> P&E and I do not make individual
OWC Mars:	suggestions if only because that would put it
OWC Mars:	and myself into the position of agenting. It's
OWC Mars:	particularly hard when I haven't read what a
OWC Mars:	writer has to offer, so it's best that...
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> a writer check through the
OWC Mars:	guidelines and make an informed judgment as
OWC Mars:	to which publisher/publication is best suited
OWC Mars:	for that work.
T83BIRD:	Apologies.  I just wondered if anyone publishes spoofs.
OWC Mars:	Do you list what certain publishers prefer to publish on your site Dave?
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> No need to apologize. Yes, there
OWC Mars:	are publications that do publish spoofs. One
OWC Mars:	of my favorites is Planet Relish. I also like
OWC Mars:	Dragonlaugh, but I'm not certain that it's still
OWC Mars:	alive.
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> Only if the publisher furnished that
OWC Mars:	to us. Otherwise, the listing is a very
OWC Mars:	generalized description for any
OWC Mars:	publisher/publication.
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> Besides, many have been known
OWC Mars:	to step outside their own guidelines, so it's
OWC Mars:	not up to P&E to restrict what might be
OWC Mars:	accepted.
OWC Mars:	Thanks Dave.  Dave... I've often heard that
OWC Mars:	"Freelance Editors" online can actually be
OWC Mars:	scams.  What has P&E discovered about this
OWC Mars:	type of service?
T83BIRD:	afk
OWC Mars:	And folks... if you have questions...do throw
OWC Mars:	up your "?" into the chat so we can put you in
OWC Mars:	QUEUE.
HOST EBK Astra:	Go fish :)
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> P&E has discovered that editing
OWC Mars:	services both online and off can actually be
OWC Mars:	scams. Very few have verifiable references.
HOST EBK Astra:	LOL - Sorry. Just saw the word QUEUE :)
OWC Mars:	 That's interesting...so a beginning author should probably seek out a workshop instead?
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> A workshop is a terrific place to
OWC Mars:	start. Consulting a local high school or college
OWC Mars:	literature teacher is another.
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> At least the writer will know who
OWC Mars:	he's dealing with and if there are any
OWC Mars:	problems, both will then be in the same legal
OWC Mars:	jurisdiction.
OWC Mars:	<rochelle> Are you still doing that contest that my article was nominated for?
T83BIRD:	>
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> By the way, I stated legal meaning
OWC Mars:	only if there is a monetary transaction taking
OWC Mars:	place.
HOST EBK Astra:	Hi Tech!
OWC Mars:	<rochelle> It was an article in Jackhammer.
Techyo:	hi ALL!
OWC Mars:	<OWC> Thanks Rochelle, for the clarification.
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> If you mean the Readers Poll, that
OWC Mars:	is now an annual event that takes place each
OWC Mars:	January.
HOST EBK Astra:	if you have questions...do throw
HOST EBK Astra:	up your "?" into the chat so we can put you in
HOST EBK Astra:	QUEUE.
OWC Mars:	Dave, about how many publications are covered in Preditors & Editors?
HOST EBK Astra:	Hi Phoenix!
HOST EBK Astra:	if you have questions...do throw
HOST EBK Astra:	up your "?" into the chat so we can put you in
HOST EBK Astra:	QUEUE.
PhoenixNYC2000:	hey what's up guys?
HOST EBK Astra:	PhoenixNYC2000, this is a hosted science fiction discussion chat room.
OWC Mars:	We've got Dave Kuzminski answering questions...
OWC Mars:	about his website Preditors & Editors... and online reference for new writers.
OWC Mars:	We've just asked how many different publications P&E talks about.
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> Well, I don't know how many
OWC Mars:	publications. I used to count how many total
OWC Mars:	entries there were the categories, but gave
OWC Mars:	that up after passing 3,000.
PhoenixNYC2000:	i'm looking into taking writing classes specailizing in fantasy is this the right place?
HOST EBK Astra:	Phoenix, I've added your name to the question queue
OWC Mars:	Do you place all the entries or is it a message
OWC Mars:	board?  How does someone get listed in P&E?
T83BIRD:	>
OWC Mars:	Phoenix, do you mean is the O*W*C the right place to take writing classes?
OWC Mars:	If so that's not a question for Kuzminski, but for us.
PhoenixNYC2000:	i'm looking for suggestions
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> I place all the entries in P&E.
OWC Mars:	Listing occurs in several ways. Writers
OWC Mars:	sometimes email me about a site.
OWC Mars:	Publishers/editors/agents often email me with
PhoenixNYC2000:	oh ok
OWC Mars:	their information. Other times, I find out by
OWC Mars:	cruising the web just to see what I can find.
OWC Mars:	Well, let me rephrase the question and post it to Dave.
OWC Mars:	Dave... a question here from OWC.
OWC Mars:	Are there any listings of ongoing writer's workshops on AOL on the P&E site?
T83BIRD:	bak
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> P&E has a section for workshops.
OWC Mars:	If someone tells me about a workshop, I'll
OWC Mars:	enter it. P&E doesn't discriminate just
OWC Mars:	because it's on AOL. ;)
HOST EBK Astra:	Hey, I resemble that, Dave :)
OWC Mars:	LOL, thank you dave...
OWC Mars:	can you give us the URL of P&E again here now, so we can direct folks there.
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> http://www.anotherealm.com/prededitors and http://www.invirtuo.cc/prededitors
OWC Mars:	And folks can go there and check out the
OWC Mars:	for.  Thanks Dave!
OWC Mars:	workshop listings to find what they're looking
PhoenixNYC2000:	gthank you
OWC Mars:	 Dave... you also list Agents on P&E, correct?
OWC Mars:	OWC> Now I hear contrasting opinions on
OWC Mars:	this...
OWC Mars:	<OWC> some say you should have an agent
OWC Mars:	first, others that you should make a first sale
OWC Mars:	and the agent will find you.  Which is correct?
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> I was also going to mention that
OWC Mars:	P&E also has a bulletin board on the Cybling
OWC Mars:	site and a topic on the bulletin board at The
OWC Mars:	Writer's Hood.
OWC Mars:	Thanks Dave.
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> Both are correct, but it's generally
OWC Mars:	more correct to make the first sale and the
OWC Mars:	agent will then find you.
OWC Mars:	Are the agent listings on P&E handled the
OWC Mars:	same way... some you've encountered
OWC Mars:	personally... and some that others have dealt
OWC Mars:	with?
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> Correct
OWC Mars:	So if a young writer is approached by an
OWC Mars:	agent before making their first sale, what
OWC Mars:	would you suggest they do?
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> Avoid that agent
OWC Mars:	That's pretty strong advice, Dave.  Can you let
OWC Mars:	us know why that would be a wise course of
OWC Mars:	action?
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> However, I should probably clear up
OWC Mars:	what might seem confusing about these last
OWC Mars:	couple of answers.
OWC Mars:	Thanks Dave, yes.
OWC Mars:	And folks... if you have a question for Dave, do put your "?" up on the screen.
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> First of all, few writers will succeed
OWC Mars:	in gaining an agent first before gaining that big
OWC Mars:	sale. This occurs mostly for those who either
OWC Mars:	have numerous short fiction sales or happen
OWC Mars:	to be a celebrity in some other field.
OWC Mars:	Like a model who's writing a tell-all.
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> Yes.
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> Most writers will gain an agent after
OWC Mars:	receiving a manuscript acceptance from a
OWC Mars:	book publisher.
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> Then the writer should approach
OWC Mars:	legitimate agents and advise those agents
OWC Mars:	that the writer already has an acceptance.
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> The agent who accepts will then
OWC Mars:	negotiate the deal so that the writer gets the
OWC Mars:	best possible.
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> Bear in mind, however, that agents
OWC Mars:	only want to represent writers who have
OWC Mars:	multiple books in them.
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> There's no real profit to be made representing a one-book author.
OWC Mars:	<ododo> ?
OWC Mars:	<OWC> Go ahead ododo.
OWC Mars:	ododo> How many major publishers will accept non-agented books?  Quite a few will not.
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> Actually, that's not entirely correct, though it is correct.
OWC Mars:	LOL!
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> Basically, numerous publishers
OWC Mars:	have guidelines stating that they don't want
OWC Mars:	unsolicited manuscripts which causes many
OWC Mars:	to believe that those have to be agented. Only
OWC Mars:	a few require an agent submit to them.
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> In the case of the no unsolicited
OWC Mars:	ms., writers can get around that by sending a
OWC Mars:	query first.
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> If the publisher asks to see the ms., then it's no longer unsolicited.
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> Of course, then it might turn out to
OWC Mars:	be time to get an agent after all if the
OWC Mars:	publisher accepts the ms.
OWC Mars:	Cool.
OWC Mars:	Dave, you started P&E as a resource for your
OWC Mars:	fellow writers in the Prodigy Writer's
OWC Mars:	Workshop.  Are you still a member of that
OWC Mars:	workshop?
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> No, I left the Prodigy network for the cheaper Death Star telephone network... ;)
OWC Mars:	LOL!
HOST EBK Astra:	Use the Force, Dave :)
OWC Mars:	Did you find that the workshop helped you though?
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> Yes.
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> These are not the manuscripts (droids) you seek.
OWC Mars:	What I'm getting at Dave, is have you used
OWC Mars:	Preditors & Editors yourself to find publishers
OWC Mars:	for your work?
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> Absolutely.
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> Oh! It must be time for a promo!
OWC Mars:	 Well it's good to know that you use your own product.  Can you give us a for instance?
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> Okay, I write fiction under a pen
OWC Mars:	name. If nothing else, that keeps that
OWC Mars:	separate from P&E to reduce the possibility of
OWC Mars:	conflict.
T83BIRD:	?
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> Under my pen name of Atk.
OWC Mars:	Butterfly, I have several books on the market
OWC Mars:	and numerous short fiction works appearing
OWC Mars:	regularly.
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> In fact, today, Beasts Are Us was
OWC Mars:	released from Hard Shell Word Factory at
OWC Mars:	http://www.hardshell.com
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> Beasts Are Us will be available
OWC Mars:	initially as an electronic book and will later be
OWC Mars:	released in paperback.
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> Sometime later this month, New
OWC Mars:	Concepts Publishing is due to release
OWC Mars:	Censored by Earth Command: Arrows and
OWC Mars:	Lasers which is the second book in that
OWC Mars:	series.
OWC Mars:	Atvar> YEAY!!!
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> That's available at http://www.newconceptspublishing.com
HOST EBK Astra:	LOL
HOST EBK Astra:	The current Queue contains the following users: T83BIRD
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> Only two months ago, Boson
OWC Mars:	Books released Paravoid which is the fourth
OWC Mars:	book in the Rust Bucket series.
OWC Mars:	Atvar> The First one, Bullets and Lasers was great!!!
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> They're at http://www.bosonbooks.com, I believe.
OWC Mars:	Atvar> oh, a 4th Bucket. My, you've been busy!
OWC Mars:	Astra... queue?
HOST EBK Astra:	The current Queue contains the following users: T83BIRD
OWC Mars:	Baryon> I haven't seen it either, great news to hear
OWC Mars:	Go for it T83
T83BIRD:	Dave, how useful do you think a pen name might be for an unknown?
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> I'm glad you liked it.
T83BIRD:	My own name is rather unwieldy.
HOST EBK Astra:	Hi Ath!
HOST EBK Astra:	if you have questions...do throw
HOST EBK Astra:	up your "?" into the chat so we can put you in
HOST EBK Astra:	QUEUE.
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> It depends upon a number of
Athanor IX:	Hi.
OWC Mars:	things. First off, the writer should determine
OWC Mars:	what reason a pen name is being used for.
HOST EBK Astra:	re's JD :)
JDipale:	yeah, RE's me
JDipale:	=-O
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> An unwieldy name might be one reason. Protecting one's privacy or job is another.
HOST EBK Astra:	Hi Ara!
Araiused:	'Allo
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> Regardless of why, however, one
OWC Mars:	thing is still necessary. The writer has to
OWC Mars:	know how to write. Readers expect that.
HOST EBK Astra:	if you have questions...do throw
HOST EBK Astra:	up your "?" into the chat so we can put you in
HOST EBK Astra:	QUEUE.
OWC Mars:	Do SF and Fantasy Authors still have to worry
OWC Mars:	about being censored by losing their jobs,
OWC Mars:	Dave?
T83BIRD:	Thanks, Dave.
JDipale:	You In The Queue,
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> It depends. If you touch upon some
OWC Mars:	subject matter or include graphic elements,
OWC Mars:	then it might be necessary.
JDipale:	you know Astra, on my screen, the second line is "Up your "?"".  sounds kinky
JDipale:	:-D
HOST EBK Astra:	::: thwapping JD ::::
HOST EBK Astra:	LOL
HOST EBK Astra:	re's Ara
JDipale:	Arai!
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> I'll add this much.
Araiused:	'allo
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> I've got a few manuscripts that one
OWC Mars:	of my publishers won't touch because of
OWC Mars:	content.
Araiused:	:: waving :::
T83BIRD:	Much appreciation, Dave, but must leave now.  Nite all.
Araiused:	Nite, T
HOST EBK Astra:	Night T!
OWC Mars:	Nite T8
OWC Mars:	Dave... do you have any other fiction  books
OWC Mars:	we should be looking for at this time either in
OWC Mars:	pulp or electronic
OWC Mars:	If there are any final questions for Dave,
OWC Mars:	please put your ? up so we can add you to
OWC Mars:	the queue.
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> Thanks for asking. Actually, I have
OWC Mars:	several others. Rather than list them all, just
OWC Mars:	use the search engine at any online book
OWC Mars:	store.
HOST EBK Astra:	? Hee.
OWC Mars:	Atvar> I recommend the Bullets and Lasers
OWC Mars:	OWC> Thanks Dave... we'll have a link on your link log page over at Cybling.
OWC Mars:	Baryon> all the Rust Buckets
JDipale:	Hey, Is Atvar In Cybling??? Tell him I said hello
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> Or visit my web site at
OWC Mars:	http://home.att.net/~d.l.kuzminski/index.html
OWC Mars:	and they're all listed there.
OWC Mars:	Go for it Astra.
HOST EBK Astra:	Normal question for me - What cons do you attend, Dave?
HOST EBK Astra:	ga
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> Actually, I haven't attended any yet.
HOST EBK Astra:	SHAME!!
JDipale:	TOO BAD!!!  We love cons here
OWC Mars:	Any plans to attend any in the future?
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> Yes, I'm a con virgin.
OWC Mars:	<DaveKuz> I hope to someday.
JDipale:	we love virgins too
HOST EBK Astra:	Cons are good for networking, I've heard.
JDipale:	who said that?
HOST EBK Astra:	The ex-virgin said it, JD :)
OWC Mars:	Any final questions here for Dave?
HOST EBK Astra:	Poor Ara :/
Araiused:	Ooops
Araiused:	Press the wrong button:)
JDipale:	re's Arai
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> By the way, you can contact me at
OWC Mars:	P&E at prededitors@att.net if you have
OWC Mars:	information to share.
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> P&E also will list your readings and signings.
OWC Mars:	Okay...let's thank Dave for joining us tonight...
OWC Mars:	and Dave...give us the URL for Preditors and
OWC Mars:	Editors one more time?
Araiused:	Thank you, Dave!
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> http://www.anotherealm.com/prededitors and http://www.invirtuo.cc/prededitors
HOST EBK Astra:	::: applause :::::
Araiused:	Yaaay!
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> P&E is writer friendly.
OWC Mars:	<Atvar> Thanks Dave, great seeing you again
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> Thank you everyone!
JDipale:	Bye Dave!!!
OWC Mars:	* OWC rips off duct tape
Araiused:	LOL
Araiused:	Is everybody still having a hangover from last night?
JDipale:	YUP
Araiused:	Good party, JD??
OWC Mars:	Baryon> good job Dave
OWC Mars:	DaveKuz> Thank you. Guess I say good night now.
OWC Mars:	<DaveKuz> Night!
Araiused:	Goodnight, Dave




:::::::::::::::end of interview:::::::::::::::::



JDipale:	Arai, any time I can spend the evening eating candy, it's a good evenuing
Araiused:	Oh, the goblins left candy at your door, JD?
OWC Mars:	LOL, JD.
OWC Mars:	I take it that means you didn't have any trick or treaters?
JDipale:	yummmmmmm
OWC Mars:	And you were forced to eat all the treats yourself?
Araiused:	Isn't JD lucky?
HOST EBK Astra:	::: somersaulting :::
JDipale:	NOPE...my welcome mat with the word "SCRAM" always does the trick
Araiused:	:: watching Astra dwindling to a speck :::
OWC Mars:	LOLOL.
OWC Mars:	JD... isn't there a big halloween parade in NY every year?
OWC Mars:	I'm curious... did they go ahead and have that this year?
JDipale:	only 2 million people attended it this year.  Only 3600 marchers in costumes
JDipale:	YUP
Araiused:	Only 2 million??
OWC Mars:	This attendance is down or up from last year?
Araiused:	More than 2 million last year?
JDipale:	down
OWC Mars:	What was it last year?
JDipale:	Yankees on TV
Araiused:	Ahso
OWC Mars:	Ah...the World Series cut into the halloween parade.
JDipale:	lots of people watching them on TV
OWC Mars:	?
JDipale:	Last Year, Sci Fi Channel covered the parade
OWC Mars:	Yes, I remember that.
JDipale:	Gand!
Araiused:	Hey, Gand
OWC Mars:	Did you go down and see it or opt in for the World Series?
Gandalara:	::: thud :::
OWC Mars:	Hey Gand.
Gandalara:	Ouch.
OWC Mars:	LOL
JDipale:	Gand where have you been tonigt?
Araiused:	Great somersault, Gand ;0
JDipale:	World Series
JDipale:	I ain't going to any large public gatherings here in NYC for a while
Gandalara:	Arizona is winning, last I looked :)
JDipale:	YUP
OWC Mars:	I see.  JD... we need to talk to you about
OWC Mars:	opting for baseball when there is a chance of
OWC Mars:	skantily clad women walking on the street.
Araiused:	LOL, Mars
JDipale:	<----Red Sox fan.  HATES Yankees
Gandalara:	It'll go to 7 games. They're PAID to let it go to 7 games. Pffffttt.
Athanor IX:	<---Football fan.  Indifferent to baseball.
JDipale:	UM, Mars...most of the "females" have um....
Araiused:	<---- ignoramus to both.
OWC Mars:	As am I, ara.
JDipale:	well, lets just say they are not women
OWC Mars:	a
OWC Mars:	Ah...I think the phrase you are looking for JD...
OWC Mars:	is added accessories not normally found on the floor model.
JDipale:	That will do it!
OWC Mars:	Well, then yes.  I can see why the series would be a bigger draw.
JDipale:	Yeah, I learned my lesson last year!
OWC Mars:	Well...before we go much further here...just a quick and (teehee)...
JDipale:	But, he still send me flowers on my birthday
OWC Mars:	short macro for your enjoyment.  LOLOL. JD.
Gandalara:	ROFL
OWC Mars:	FRIDAY, NOV 2, 9pm-11pm ET --
OWC Mars:	AI Abuse?  Post-traumatic teleporting
OWC Mars:	syndrome?  For the most cerebral of
OWC Mars:	literature, how often does SF explore
OWC Mars:	the psychology of the future?  Join
OWC Mars:	HOST EBK Mystik as SF General
OWC Mars:	analyzes "SF Neuroses."
OWC Mars:	THEN
OWC Mars:	FRIDAY, NOV 2, 10pm-12am ET --
OWC Mars:	What do squid, spacestation
OWC Mars:	microbrewed beer and Science
OWC Mars:	Fiction have in common?  They're all
OWC Mars:	essential items in the pantry of the
OWC Mars:	Other*Worlds*Cafe!  Whether you like
OWC Mars:	to slowly savor the conversation or you
OWC Mars:	just want a quick cup of Science
OWC Mars:	Fiction to go, you'll find our menu to
OWC Mars:	your liking.  For a chat that's more
OWC Mars:	stimulating than coffee (although
OWC Mars:	somewhat harder to dunk doughnuts
OWC Mars:	in), join HOST EBK Astra in the
OWC Mars:	O*W*C where you'll find good friends
OWC Mars:	discussing their favorite aspects of
OWC Mars:	Science Fiction.
Gandalara:	Phew.
OWC Mars:	Now, that was short and painless, wouldn't you say?
JDipale:	Holey Moley, that is a macro allright
OWC Mars:	And since we're in the macro mood...
OWC Mars:	Next Week: November 8 -  LUCY SNYDER
OWC Mars:	Lucy Snyder is a Texas native whose
JDipale:	NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OWC Mars:	fiction has appeared in a variety of print
OWC Mars:	and electronic publications. She currently
OWC Mars:	lives in Columbus, OH where she
OWC Mars:	publishes Dark Planet and is a consulting
OWC Mars:	editor for Strange Horizons. BLOOD
JDipale:	NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OWC Mars:	MAGIC, her collection of 4 stories is now
OWC Mars:	available from Eggplant-Productions.  You
OWC Mars:	can read an excerpt at
OWC Mars:	http://www.eggplant-
OWC Mars:	productions.com/jintsu/etext.asp?id=4
OWC Mars:	******************
OWC Mars:	URLS!
OWC Mars:	http://www.cybling.com/artists/snyder.html
Araiused:	That's a Formula 1 macro
OWC Mars:	:::curtsey:::
Gandalara:	Hey, didja see the picture of Mars in the paper today? The planet, not the host. Of the
Gandalara:	Pole area and all the temperatures?
OWC Mars:	No I didn't...which paper Gand?
Gandalara:	Um, it was in my local paper. Sorry.
Araiused:	It could be on NASA's website too.
OWC Mars:	Harumph.
JDipale:	Local?/?  No, Gand, I didn't see your local paper today
OWC Mars:	What *were* the unseasonably balmy temperatures Gand?
Araiused:	I think Odyssey is already sending back pictures.
JDipale:	:-D
Gandalara:	Truck driver saw stuff colored in Green, and said "Hey, it's warm enough to grow stuff
Gandalara:	there!" Duh.
Araiused:	LOLOL
OWC Mars:	lol
Gandalara:	Temps were from Zero to minus 120
JDipale:	That is sweater weather
Gandalara:	Was a gorgeous pic though
OWC Mars:	Why that's about tropical.
Araiused:	Need lots of woollies on Mars.
OWC Mars:	Heck...Chicagoans would be jogging in short shorts in that weather.
Araiused:	In -120, Mars?
Gandalara:	I'd have to wear socks. Yuck.
OWC Mars:	Well... 0, sure.  120 is a little cold even for them.
Araiused:	Are they talking C or F?
OWC Mars:	Good question Ara.
Gandalara:	I think it was C, Ara. Pretty sure.
JDipale:	or Kelvin?
OWC Mars:	Or Kalvin and Hobbs?
OWC Mars:	Jeeze I miss that cartoon.
JDipale:	Me Too!!!
OWC Mars:	Kinda glad my sister and hubby got them tattooed on their shoulders as wedding presents.
JDipale:	and Bloom County and the Far Side.  My 3 Favs!
Araiused:	They are not doing it anymore?
Gandalara:	LOL Mars
OWC Mars:	Yeah, Gand thinks I'm joking.
Gandalara:	No, I believe you. It's just funny :)
OWC Mars:	No, Ara, all 3 strips are no longer going.
JDipale:	Hobbs Rules!!!
OWC Mars:	Which is a shame.  K&H was the best.  I loved his SF fantasies.
JDipale:	Spaceman Spiff
OWC Mars:	Did the author of K&H just give it up or did he meet an untimely end.
OWC Mars:	?
Gandalara:	The most boring comics (in my paper) is Charlie Brown and Spiderman.
Araiused:	brb
JDipale:	Gave it up, like Larsen and Breathed
OWC Mars:	Oh well.  I suppose the well will eventually run dry.
JDipale:	(far side and bloom county
JDipale:	The creater of Heathcliff passed away a month agfo
OWC Mars:	Some folks know when to call it a day while their strips are still fresh.
OWC Mars:	Shame there are some writers, who shall
OWC Mars:	remain nameless (from me at least) who don't
OWC Mars:	do that as well.
JDipale:	oh please, name!!!
OWC Mars:	:::zips lips:::
OWC Mars:	Of course, if an author pops into any of your minds...
OWC Mars:	who should give it up on a particular series... please don't let my...
OWC Mars:	reticence stop you from expressing your personal opinion.
Gandalara:	GOR :)
JDipale:	:-X
OWC Mars:	You see, now I've not had the pleasure on that one.
OWC Mars:	Is that the title of a series or is the x-vice president writing ST books these days?
Gandalara:	Um, don't go looking and buying on eBay for them, Mars :)
Gandalara:	John Norman writes the Gor series. SF soft porn
Araiused:	bak
JDipale:	did someone say porn?
OWC Mars:	Okay... thanks for the warning Gand.  Though
OWC Mars:	I did just receive a copy of the Vincent Price
OWC Mars:	cook book I've been coveting lately.  I will
OWC Mars:	avoid buying that series.
OWC Mars:	Soft porn, JD.
Gandalara:	Gor ain't worth diddly, JD. I have some good titles, if you want <EG>
OWC Mars:	I would assume that means they never take off their EVA helmets?
JDipale:	how can porn be ... um...soft?
OWC Mars:	See above.
OWC Mars:	Funny that you should say that though, JD.
Araiused:	Soft porn above?
Gandalara:	LOL
OWC Mars:	It reminds me of a novel... SCANNERS I think the title was.
JDipale:	James Woods?
Gandalara:	::: snort :::
OWC Mars:	By the mother of Cyberpunk, trying to remember.
OWC Mars:	No relation to the Scanners movies.
JDipale:	Oh, I'm thinking of Screamers
OWC Mars:	That would be based on a P.K.Dick novel, JD.  The book was by...
JDipale:	ironic that Screamers isn't porn
OWC Mars:	C.  something.  Damn my brain.
OWC Mars:	Anyway... in the novel she talked about the
OWC Mars:	near future where there were all kinds of porn.
OWC Mars:	One of my favorites was Food Porn.
Gandalara:	Nothing listed by that name and a female author in the SF data base, Mars.
OWC Mars:	This was Pre-Food Channel.
Araiused:	Food porn?
OWC Mars:	Yeah... just hours and hours of exotically fetishized food.
Araiused:	The cabbage and cantaloupe having a go at each other?
OWC Mars:	Food for food's sake, photographed lovingly.
Araiused:	Hi, Rhoad
OWC Mars:	You know...like the cover of Food and Wine.
Gandalara:	Hi Rhoad!
Araiused:	Hi, TAM!
Gandalara:	Hi TAM!
OWC Mars:	Hi Rhoad, Hi Tam.
Araiused:	We're talking food porn now.
RhoadKyll2:	howdy
OWC Mars:	Say, Rhoad & Tam, can you recall the name...
Patterner:	Hi folks!
Araiused:	Hi, Patt
OWC Mars:	of the female author who is often referred to as the Mother...
Patterner:	Hi JD!  Hi TAM!  Hi Rhoad!  Hi Ath!  Hi Ara!  Hi
Patterner:	Gand!  Hi Mars!
OWC Mars:	or Grandmother of Cyberpunk?
JDipale:	Hey all who just entered :-D
OWC Mars:	Hi Patt.
TAMirabile:	Hi, Gand!  Ara!  Mars!!
Patterner:	Pat Cadigan.
OWC Mars:	Thanks!  That's it.
Patterner:	We've done three interviews with her. :)
OWC Mars:	And what was the name of her novel in which she talked about food porn?
TAMirabile:	Hi, Patt!   Rhoad!  JD!  Ath!
Patterner:	Hmm.. I either didn't read that, or don't
OWC Mars:	Sounds like Scanners?
Patterner:	remember it.
Gandalara:	She wrote a book called Synners
OWC Mars:	Thats it!
Patterner:	And one called Fools, which I've read, plus the
Patterner:	Japanese/VR stories/book.
OWC Mars:	Thank you Gand.
OWC Mars:	I'm good for first letters tonight and not much else.  "C" = Cadigan, S = Synners.
JDipale:	well, I must be going now
Araiused:	Nite, JD!
OWC Mars:	Thanks JD.
Patterner:	Night, JD!
Gandalara:	Night JD!
TAMirabile:	Food porn?   you mean like doublechocolate brownies with doublewalnuts and chocolate icecream and hot fudge sauce?
Gandalara:	Hey, it works Mars :)
OWC Mars:	Be sure to be here tomorrow night!
OWC Mars:	Exactly TAM.
OWC Mars:	With nice juicy maraschino cherrys and coconut for good measure.
Gandalara:	Or .... what was the name of that salad dressing, Mars? <EG>
Patterner:	LOL  I would want butterscotch ice cream with
Patterner:	caramel topping and bananas.
TAMirabile:	I had a fried ham and cheese sandwich with raspberry sauce at lunch
OWC Mars:	LOLOLOL.
Gandalara:	Hee :)
OWC Mars:	Ah... now see.  Tam is someone who would appreciate food porn.
TAMirabile:	Heh   :)
OWC Mars:	Here's something I picked up in Prague.
DerHexer:	Hi all
Araiused:	Hi, Der!
OWC Mars:	Hi DerHexer.
TAMirabile:	Hi, Der!
Gandalara:	Hi Der
Araiused:	We're discussing food porn, Der :)
Patterner:	Hi Der!
OWC Mars:	You start with 3 crepes filled with nutella on a bed of blueberry and strawberry sauce....
DerHexer:	When were you in Prague, Mars??
OWC Mars:	May, Der.
OWC Mars:	Then you put 3 scoops of different flavored icecreams on top of those...
TAMirabile:	Sounds wonderful already Mars
DerHexer:	food porn.  Did anyone see the movie Tom Jones?  Wonderful erotic scene as they eat
Gandalara:	She has pictures of Golems
OWC Mars:	sprinkle them all over with nuts and shaved chocolate.
Araiused:	How about peanut butter, strawberry jam and cheese on bread.
OWC Mars:	toss fresh fruit around artfully...
TAMirabile:	Add raisins to that Ara    and maybe just a little maple syrup
DerHexer:	I was in Prague in 1968
OWC Mars:	and then drizzle it all with chocolate, carmel, and whipped cream.
OWC Mars:	And I have pictures of it.
Gandalara:	Berries. Any kind of berries. Hand fed.
TAMirabile:	Mars   do you get it free if you can eat the whole thing?
Gandalara:	Is this the SF room? :)
OWC Mars:	Unfortunately, no, TAM.
OWC Mars:	LOLOLOLOL.
OWC Mars:	:::thwapps self:::
Patterner:	LOL TAM
OWC Mars:	'68 was a pretty rough time to be in Prague Der.
OWC Mars:	I went to the memorial in Wenceslauss Square.
DerHexer:	That's true, Mars
TAMirabile:	Baklava with walnuts, cashews and pistachios   :)
TAMirabile:	LOL Gand
OWC Mars:	Something I'm curious about...
OWC Mars:	do they serve desert on the space shuttle?
DerHexer:	I'm lucky the Russians didn't want to cause an international incident by arresting an ex-Marine.  They just expelled me
Gandalara:	Sure they do.
OWC Mars:	Yes, you are very lucky Der.
DerHexer:	Think about the kinds of foods bio-engineers could develop
OWC Mars:	Gand... is Space Shuttle desert like that little spot of applesauce in TV dinners or what?
Patterner:	Sure, some of them like M&Ms.
Gandalara:	Squeeze tube desserts ;)
RhoadKyll2:	they have lots of dessert choices on space missions
OWC Mars:	I should think that M&Ms could be very dangerous in zero-g.
DerHexer:	Especially if you snort one up your nose
Gandalara:	Ow!
OWC Mars:	I'm just thinking about swallowing Der.
OWC Mars:	It's not as easy in zero-g, and I should think
OWC Mars:	something like an M&M could easily cause
OWC Mars:	problems.
DerHexer:	Why?  Swallowing is done in zero-G
Araiused:	Like what, Rhoad?
OWC Mars:	But if they did...they'd be banned.
Araiused:	Ice cream from a tube?
TAMirabile:	I like the deserts in Heinlein's Magic Incorporated      the ones on the left side of the menu don't count for calories or cholesterol
Gandalara:	Then stick to the peanut butter M&M's. They're kinda mooshy. Good too.
OWC Mars:	Well, Der, I have trouble with vitamins at normal G.
OWC Mars:	TAM, I like that.
RhoadKyll2:	they have personal size pies and cakes
TAMirabile:	Ice cream guns at 5 paces
OWC Mars:	See...that's what we need for zero calories, fat and cholesterol. Deserts.
DerHexer:	I'd think once you get sometyhing in your mouth, suction rather than gravity would be the main force
Araiused:	Cholesterol deserts, Mars :)
OWC Mars:	You would think, Der...but try standing on your head and drinking from a straw.
OWC Mars:	True, you have gravity working against you in
OWC Mars:	that case, but you'll find it's much more
OWC Mars:	difficult that you would think.
OWC Mars:	Yes, I've tried it.
TAMirabile:	Heinlein then had one of the characters go all moralistic about self control and only eating what you should
Gandalara:	Mars, then gravity makes it go up/down your nose.
DerHexer:	Well, gravity is pulling the liquid to the top of your mouth.  But in zero-G...
DerHexer:	So, do the astronauts go thru special training just to swallow??
TAMirabile:	I would think that it would be much easier to choke in zero-G
OWC Mars:	That's what I'm thinking TAM.
OWC Mars:	I dunno... anyone here know if there's eating training in Astronaut school?
TAMirabile:	Ooooohhhhh    bad cases of acid reflux
Araiused:	So, peanuts are out of the question?
TAMirabile:	I might be able to toss up a peanut and catch it in my mouth in zero-\g
Gandalara:	Richocet, TAM :)
Araiused:	Or  toss up a peanut and chase it in zero G
TAMirabile:	I was thinking of a verrrrrrrrrry gentle toss
DerHexer:	Check http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/academy/astronauts/training.html for mention
DerHexer:	of atronaut eating/drinking
Araiused:	Gee, thanks, Der
OWC Mars:	Thank you DER!
Gandalara:	Leave it to Der! Yay!
Araiused:	Hi, Jim
Gandalara:	Hi Slip
OWC Mars:	SlipperJim!
SlipperyJim7017:	Hello all
OWC Mars:	Welcome to the Other Worlds Cafe....
DerHexer:	Hi Slip
TAMirabile:	Hi, Rat
OWC Mars:	We're just talking about the possible difficulties...
Patterner:	Hi Slip!
DerHexer:	I guess they do do some training in how to eat/drink.
SlipperyJim7017:	Hey! there you go
OWC Mars:	one might encounter eating breakfast in zero-g.
Gandalara:	Wonder how long it takes to boil an egg in space. That's really high altitude :)
OWC Mars:	And DerHexer was kind enough to find us a relevant URL.
TAMirabile:	LOL   no big stack of pancakes with melted butter and maple syrup running down the sides?
OWC Mars:	Gand...wouldn't you just put a hole in the shell and nuke the egg?
DerHexer:	You know what I'd like some bio/food engineer to come up with - french fries with the taste of salt but no salt added,
Araiused:	LOL, Mars
OWC Mars:	No, Tam, I don't think so.
OWC Mars:	Der... I finally discovered a secret of the local chinese restaurant...
TAMirabile:	Der,   It would have to be really awful for you     too good an idea
OWC Mars:	which also does some American Food items.
DerHexer:	or a steak that tastes of crisp fat when it is broiled, but no actual fat in it
OWC Mars:	The fries are so good, and I never could figure
OWC Mars:	out why.  Until someone explained to me why
OWC Mars:	their blt's are so great.
DerHexer:	Why?
Araiused:	blt's?
TAMirabile:	msg?
OWC Mars:	Apparently, they deep fry their bacon and their potatoes in the same fat.
DerHexer:	Bacon-Lettuce-Tomato sandwiches
Gandalara:	blt = bacon lettuce and tomato
Araiused:	Ahso
TAMirabile:	Pork fat RULEZ!
DerHexer:	Deep fried bacon?  I can feel the cholesterol rush already
OWC Mars:	So, the fries have an almost undiscernable flavor of bacon.  It's amazing.
Patterner:	LOL  Sounds great!
Araiused:	"It's bacon!"
OWC Mars:	LOL.
OWC Mars:	Now I remember a story...
OWC Mars:	vaguely...
Gandalara:	Which would never work, if you use turkey bacon.
DerHexer:	That does sound good, Mars.  I'll have to try it.  What they hell, I'd rather die with the taste of french fries, wine and steak in
OWC Mars:	from the golden age about food engineers coming up with the most popular flavor.
DerHexer:	my mouth, than tea and tofu
TAMirabile:	turkey bacon is an oxymoron
OWC Mars:	Does anyone else recall that story?
DerHexer:	Very vaguely, Mars
Gandalara:	Chocolate, Mars. Don't need a story for that :)
OWC Mars:	The engineers were sitting around coming up
OWC Mars:	with different flavors...and it was some kind of
OWC Mars:	blind taste test.
OWC Mars:	And this one taste was great... but none of the developers wanted to admit what it was.
TAMirabile:	I remember one about a society where social prestige was won by cooking/putting together different flavors
RhoadKyll2:	I think the most universally recognizable taste would be rice
OWC Mars:	Kinda like pork... kinda like chicken.
OWC Mars:	Ahem.
Patterner:	Ah, human
TAMirabile:	Long pork?
RhoadKyll2:	chork
OWC Mars:	Yeah.  And so the ethical question was raised.
OWC Mars:	If it looks like long pork and tastes like long
OWC Mars:	pork, but is synthesized... is it cannabalism?
Araiused:	LOL, Rhaod
DerHexer:	Good ?, Mars
TAMirabile:	Better be careful with the pricing, or some people might decide to go for do-it-yourself.
Athanor IX:	According to some, Spam tastes like people.
OWC Mars:	And would we care if we could make a "killing" in the fast food market with it?
DerHexer:	Ask them how they know, Ath
Gandalara:	LOL TAM
OWC Mars:	Good one Der.
TAMirabile:	Mars   synthetic is synthetic---never mind what it resembles
DerHexer:	Sounds like some watched Sweeney Todd on TV last night
TAMirabile:	Uhhh  Ath,  and how do they know that?
OWC Mars:	LOL, missed that one Der.  But that was based on a true story wasn't it?
Athanor IX:	There was a rumor that Spam sold well on some S Pacific islands because it reminded the recently civilized ex headhunters
SlipperyJim7017:	TAM,seems you've read some of Harry Harison's stories?
DerHexer:	I think so, Janice
Athanor IX:	of their former dietary preference.
Araiused:	Yep, Mars, a British serial killer.
TAMirabile:	A few, Jim
DerHexer:	Some day I'll look it up, after I get around to joining the Procrastinator's Club
OWC Mars:	Well, Ara, it's good to know that we in
OWC Mars:	america haven't cornered the market on the
OWC Mars:	serial killers.
TAMirabile:	The Rat is one of my favorite scape-graces
OWC Mars:	LOL, Der.
Athanor IX:	Germany had some good serial killers too...Peter Kurten, Fritz Haarman.
DerHexer:	The British seem to have much more 'civilized' serial killers.  We get people like Jeff Dahmer
Araiused:	Oh, there are serial killers in Britain, Mars.
Araiused:	The recent ones was that couple.
TAMirabile:	I saw 2 people dressed as cereal killers for Halloween
Gandalara:	ROFL
Athanor IX:	Russia had Andrei Chikatilo.
Gandalara:	Thanks Mars! Night all!
Araiused:	 Nite, Gand!
RhoadKyll2:	IOW humans are humans
OWC Mars:	Folks...let me remind you to Join HOST
OWC Mars:	EBK Mystik as SF General analyzes
OWC Mars:	"SF Neuroses," tomorrow night at 9
OWC Mars:	pm ET in the SF General
OWC Mars:	Chatroom...and then come back here
OWC Mars:	at 10 pm ET...
DerHexer:	Good chat, Mars, gave me a lot to chew on
OWC Mars:	to chat with Astra.
OWC Mars:	Thank you everyone!
Patterner:	Thanks, Mars!  Good chat!
Patterner:	See y'all tomorrow!
Araiused:	Thanks, Mars!
OWC Mars:	And next week....
TAMirabile:	Thanks Mars    
OWC Mars:	We'll have Lucy Snyder out here to answer your questions at 10 pm ET.
OWC Mars:	See you then!
Log Entry:	Other Worlds SF Chat [Members - 5] 11/1/01 11:03 PM