The opinions expressed in this chat are not necessarily those of The Other*Worlds*Cafe or America Online. RELM Muse: Remember OMNI? Well, it's not around anymore, but some of the folks who were the ... RobKill: We'll both be at Worldcon, and at World Fantasy Con in Monterrey. Gandalara: LOL Rob EllenDat: Yes, and also a kaffeeklatch and autographing. RELM Muse: heart of OMNI have started a new webzine: Ellen Datlow's Event Horizon. RELM Muse: The first issue is next month! We're here to find out about the zine... RELM Muse: and what'll be in it. BugsBnny: caffeine-induced ischemia causes the chest-grabbing "Coffee clutch" RELM Muse: So... Ellen Datlow, Rob Killheffer -- what's the zine and what are you guys... RELM Muse: doing for it? RobKill: Ahem. I must point out that "Ellen Datlow's" is not part of the title. It's just "Event Horizon." (Sorry, Ell) Gandalara: LOL EllenDat: Right. RELM Muse: Really? Ellen's announcement to rec.arts.sf.announce said so. ;) BugsBnny: Well, *her* copy is "ED's EV".... EllenDat: that's ok:> I don't want to take full credit.... RobKill: Ellen, you sly dog! RELM Muse: All right, Just Event Horizon. ;) EllenDat: I think it might have been to distinguish it from another webzine... RobKill: Well, since it's an online 'zine, there isn't really anyone's "copy" ... EllenDat: that was called EH but is changing their name. RobKill: So it's everyone's Event Horizon, I guess. RELM Muse: How'd you guys come to start up a new zine? DrAisin: It's MY Event horizon lay claim! BugsBnny: FInancially appropriate-- teeterig on the brink of extinction.... RELM Muse: LOL DrA EllenDat: Rob, ga RobKill: Well, as you described in your opening comments ... RobKill: the folks at GMI (the parent company of OMNI) Gandalara: :::diving into a black hole sounds like fun:::: RobKill: decided to shut things down. We had been virtual -- online only -- for a couple of years ... RobKill: and we had a lot of experience -- and fun -- doing a magazine on the web. RobKill: So we thought we'd take some of what we learned and, without the chains that weighed us down at OMNI, ... RobKill: try doing a 'zine of our own. RobKill: /ga RELM Muse: Cool! RELM Muse: Welcome to the Other*Worlds*Cafe chat RELM Muse: with Ellen Datlow and Rob Killheffer of RELM Muse: Event Horizon! RELM Muse: What's the zine going to be like? JacquiMSB: Am I missing something here? I am new to this stuff, I just popped in because I wanted to get EllenDat: It's going to be an sf/f/h webzine with ficiton and nonfiction. JacquiMSB: people's feedback on good adult science fiction BugsBnny: Jac, whether you're new or not doesn;t impact what you miss. EllenDat: Also, we'll have a lot of cool sites to link to, regular weekly author chat/interview... Shadowjakk: I was going to ask about the /f/h part. :) DrAisin: ;) Bugs BugsBnny: Sceince fiction/falconery/haberdashery? Wst1955dd: so when is the first issue coming? EllenDat: contests and prizes monthly and a big contest for our launch. Kyryn: Heyla BugsBnny: hey< Shad. Gandalara: :::waving hi to all who just came in::: Shadowjakk: Knowing that OMNI wasn't always the proper vehicle for f or h. EllenDat: We want to build a community as well a magazine online.ga Kyryn: New Magazine I take it Shadowjakk: Howdy, Bugs. Kyryn: ? VVanP: Will the first issue be open to manuscripts, or will it be by invite only? BugsBnny: Yeah... but I want a vehicle for pulling g's.... EllenDat: We launch August 14th. Shadowjakk: So soon? EllenDat: Shadowjakk--we always published fantasy but rarely horror in OMNI. BugsBnny: How frequent? Will this be an "Aperiodical"? RobKill: Jakk: We've been developing the 'zine for a few months already. Kyryn: So fantasy as well as Sf Kyryn: Good for you RobKill: We're doing this chat because we're finally ready to launch. EllenDat: I'd like to publish more horror than I felt comfortable with at OMNI. RELM Muse: VVanP (really James Van Pelt, SF author) wants to know about submissions. ;) RobKill: (A few months back we didn't even plan a 'zine.) Kyryn: I fear some are rather pharochial in their opinions on what true SF is RobKill: Ellen, you want to answer the subs question? EllenDat: WanP: we're publishing only one fiction piece per issue at first so we're pretty booked... RobKill: Meanwhile, Bugs: We'll be monthly. Though on the web it's vital to have new stuff up ... BugsBnny: Pharaocial?!? They demanded that it deal with Egypt? RELM Muse: LOL Bugs RobKill: just about all the time, so there will be weekly and daily stuff going on as well. EllenDat: for the first few months. Eventually we will be soliciting for fiction. VVanP: Thanks, Muse, you blew my cover . Gandalara: LOL Kyryn: Ok, I'm an engineer not a writer RELM Muse: Not much of a cover, VV, we interviewed you a few months ago. ;) RELM Muse: Have questions for Ellen or Rob? Just ask! RELM Muse: If I miss the question, ask again. :) EllenDat: Our nf will be more like commentary than reviews although....we may start .... EllenDat: runnign book reviews in the future.ga DrAisin: Dammit, Jim, I'm a bricklayer, not a doctor Kyryn: basically Gandalara: ? Only one piece of fiction per issue? What else is there? Wst1955dd: okay doc bones RobKill: Allow me, Ell ... EllenDat: ga RobKill: At the start, we're offering one fiction story each month, along with one piece of nonfiction "commentary" ... RobKill: as Ellen described. Wst1955dd: editoral on new trends in science and fiction? DrAisin: ??? Are there plans to promote "Up-and-Coming" authors? RobKill: We'll be hosting weekly chats with SF/F/H writers of all sorts -- some up-and-coming, others RobKill: well established. BugsBnny: Why the e-zine format, other than cost? Or is that it? RobKill: We'll have frequent contests and games, stuff like that. VVanP: I can see that with you guys at the helm, you'll attract hits. What can you do to make it pay its way, though Kyryn: Just please don't interview Harlan for a while RobKill: And we hope to expand the contents quickly, as we build and audience (and revenue). RELM Muse: LOL Kyr EllenDat: The stories I have in the first few months are by well-known and newer writers Gandalara: LOL Kyr Kyryn: I can only tolerate about one per year EllenDat: We've got fiction by Pat Cadigan, K.W. Jeter, Chris Kenworthy, Terry Dowling, and Ed Bryant. Kyryn: Muse: Will guest columns be solicited EllenDat: And for the chats we have Kim Stanley Robinson, THomas Ligotti, Elizabeth Massie... VVanP: One story a month? Or will that expand in the future? EllenDat: Nicola Griffith, and others.ga RobKill: Bugs: Honestly, it's the money -- though our pleasant experience in cyberspace with OMNI did make ... Kyryn: I must e getting old, I don't recognize one of those authors RobKill: the choice less controversial. But where else could you launch a 'zine with any credibility in a matter of ... RobKill: months? /ga EllenDat: Kyryn:The ones to be published or those to be interviewed? Gandalara: Kyr - KSR wrote Red, Blue, Green Mars Kyryn: Any RELM Muse: And Terry Dowling is an Aussie, who writes cool SF. Kyryn: Thanx Gand, I do recognize those titles EllenDat: K.W Jeter wrote teh novel sequels to Bladerunner. BugsBnny: Sigh. Whatever happened to desktop pub and the USamizdat wave to come? EllenDat: Pat Cadigan has won the Clarke award twice. VVanP: Kyryn, Ed Bryant is a completely awesome writer. RobKill: Kyryn: Regarding columns, right now we've got four columnists who will be ... Wst1955dd: first you have to establish the foundation for the new ezine, prove the numbers are there, then expand EllenDat: WanP Ed Bryant is also one of our chat hosts. VVanP: Ed is a Denver area author. I run into him quite often. RobKill: switching off, and doing more than enough. But when we expand, we may invite "guest" columnists and ... RobKill: nonfiction subs. RobKill: /ga RELM Muse: Yeah, Pat is going to be your first author? Can you give us a tease for the story? EllenDat: Ed's a terrific write and critic. BugsBnny: One billionth of a huge non-paying audience is still zip. BugsBnny: VVanP, you gotta stop composing while driving. Gandalara: LOL RELM Muse: LOL Bugs VVanP: LOL!! Kyryn: Not to be Indelicate, but are you being subsidised by any of the publishers of these authors RobKill: Bugs: Yeah, desktop publishing did seem like a good opportunity -- but there's the distribution system ... Wst1955dd: will you alter do a annual print edition of your mag? EllenDat: Pat's story is about a cyber musical group. RobKill: to deal with still, and without that, no go. BugsBnny: called "lotus Notes"? BugsBnny: Psychedlia, but cross-indexed? EllenDat: Kyrn, we're hoping to get advertising from some of the publishers. RobKill: Obviously, we'll be relying on funds from sponsors, advertisers, etc., not subscribers -- at least not ... RobKill: in the foreseeable future. But we're not selling our spots, if that's what you mean. Wst1955dd: amazon books ads aplenty EllenDat: Wst1955 we hope to sell an anthology of the stories to a book publisher. Kyryn: Thank You RobKill: Our ads will be just like anyone else's -- bought and paid for, but separate from editorial selection. RobKill: /ga VVanP: Dozois, in the 15th edition of the year's best, didn't have much good to say about on-line fiction. How will VVanP: you attract the best to counter that? RELM Muse: Ellen, will this fold into your annual best Fantasy/Horror books? EllenDat: WanP: I have attracted the best with the help of my reputation as the fiction... E cat s: Hi folks :-) EllenDat: editor of OMNI and of all my anthos. The problem in the past has been... Gandalara: Hiya :) EllenDat: a lack of quality control in online fiction, for the most part.ga RELM Muse: Hi E! E cat s: what great news EllenDat: Muse: I'm not sure what you mean? Wst1955dd: more "name" authors want to do online ezines but were hestiate about mags rep RELM Muse: I was wondering if there would be some crossfertilization with the... Kyryn: I'm glad to hear you say that ED E cat s: Hi Muse Rock on!! RELM Muse: Best books and the webzine. VVanP: Ellen, I believe you can do it. I hope so. RobKill: Wan: To add to what Ellen said, we believe firmly that the online medium _can_ be a good forum EllenDat: Muse: It's possible that as I review books for my Year's Best... RobKill: for short fiction (longer stuff is more problematic); we just think people (including us) are still BugsBnny: What would you say to an author that has to choose between you and an established paper pub? EllenDat: some of those reviews will be used for Event Horizon...we'll see.ga RobKill: figuring out how to make it work. We're in a growing medium, the early EllenDat: WanP --Thanks:> RobKill: days yet. We're hoping we'll be the ones to figure out how to make it work. RELM Muse: VV, Dozois *has* commented on OMNI's fiction when they were here on AOL, quite favorably. BugsBnny: How do you avoid being "the best of the rest"? Wst1955dd: they don't have to wait a year to see it RobKill: Wst: There is that. Ellen, more? RELM Muse: And so we have to think that Event Horizon's fiction will be even better. BugsBnny: *they* alredy saw it... VVanP: Yes, that's true, Muse. He also gave a prescription for how to succeed on the web too. EllenDat: And OMNI's online fiction won the WOrld Fantasy Award EllenDat: Rob? EllenDat: No ga E cat s: There's alot of "the rest", tho, Bugs RELM Muse: And personally, I prefer Hartwell's Best, anyway. ;) RobKill: That's true, E cat. But we really do believe -- and so far it's proved true -- that we can get the best RELM Muse: For those of you who have just come in, the Other*Worlds*Cafe... RELM Muse: is hosting Ellen Datlow and Rob Killheffer of Event Horizon, a new webzine,... RobKill: of the best, with Ellen's reputation. Especially if we make the 'zine a hot property, build E cat s: And time can pass a lot faster than the mainstream can allocate space EllenDat: Right. E cat--so far I haven't had any problem getting submissions from... RobKill: a big audience. /ga EllenDat: most of the writers I want.... RELM Muse: for SF/F/H. Feel free to ask questions! Kyryn: Well, Ellen and Rob, I think at least you have a very appropriate name GrendalsX E cat s: I can get a spec sheet fromMuse? BugsBnny: So what are you aiming for in terms fo readership/hits/subs/whatever? EllenDat: and I think as writers perceive us as being around for awhile, and see who else is being published by us... RobKill: Kyryn: What do you mean? EllenDat: they'll be jumping to come aboard (so to speak:>)ga Kyryn: Do you know what an event horizon is? RELM Muse: Not me, E -- Ellen, where are your guidelines? RobKill: Yup. RobKill: But I can imagine a dozen or more ways in which it's an appropriate title, metaphorically -- RobKill: some good, some bad. I was wondering which you had in mind. :) E cat s: >> bam! speaking as an offworlder<<< Wst1955dd: online mags can hit the "hot" trend in subject matter quicker than print EllenDat: Muse: We dont' have guidelines yet because right now we're not taking unsolicited mss.ga Kyryn: It is the realm in which reality meets the imaginary, on a mathenatical basis Kyryn: mathematical RobKill: Bugs: We don't really have a set goal. Already we've got more than 1,000 registered "users," and we haven't E cat s: Kyryn: may be one place your print doesn't appear across the galaxy Wst1955dd: in missiles, its the horizon when the missle can soonest hit you RobKill: even published yet. We're hoping to be in the tens of thousands within the first year, certainly. The bigger RobKill: the better! /ga RELM Muse: Speaking of which, Rob, how can folks join your mailing list, and what will they get from it? EllenDat: Re: our nonfiction pieces, we're giving name writers a great forum for expressing... BugsBnny: If you want to make it 1,001, give us the address. VVanP: Do you see the e-zine as a place for new comers to break in? Or will it be a lost cause for all but the EllenDat: virtually anything they want relating to the field that we feel fits our webzine. VVanP: established pros? Wst1955dd: 1002, bunny RobKill: You can visit our site at http://www.e-horizon.com/eventhorizon. What's there Kyryn: Gotta go, Good Luck, and Blessed Be EllenDat: WanP Definitely we'll want newcomers. Chris Kenworthy, who is an upcoming issue... RobKill: right now is just a "Coming soon" page with a form through which you can register. GRENDALS1: RELM Muse: LOL Rob E cat s: I have a tree-evolution story that's a comedy; mm Wst1955dd: sprinkled with holywater for good measure EllenDat: Well, reading slush for me is kind of relaxing because I know ... Phx8: The key will be marketing. Attract hits, sell ads, known names VVanP: Have you ever seen a story you bounced in another mag and thought, "How'd I miss that?" RobKill: The holy water would jump right off most of it ... EllenDat: I don't have to concentrate as hard--if somethign is really good.. Wst1955dd: ROFL EllenDat: it'll jump out at you. Voila! It's no longer slush. E cat s: Slush is OK in the summer,too BugsBnny: Well, yeah, if it's on fire. Duh. RELM Muse: LOL E RobKill: Phx: Absolutely. But it's more than big names -- it's having enough going on. Not just text, but events, BugsBnny: Or it's just spring-loaded. T83BIRD: I just wondered, Muse, if they'd be interested in OUR ORBIT. RobKill: things to do, that bring people back for more. /ga EllenDat: WanP. there have been many stories that I've turned down and won prizes... RELM Muse: Oh, I doubt it, T8. I don't think Ellen is into furry. BugsBnny: Yo won prizes for turning things down? Cool! EllenDat: a few of them I regretted passing on, others I could not see why they won a prize at all! Gandalara: LOL Bugs Wst1955dd: true, people who stay at the site for hours EllenDat: I mean an award. T83BIRD: Fair enough, Muse. VVanP: Scithers told me he bounce a Willis story that copped one of the big awards. Shadowjakk: Agreed, Rob...interactivity, to some degree, will be what separates webzines from their more portable... Shadowjakk: ...competitors. EllenDat: WanP I turned down some of COnnie's stories I'm sorry I turned down. RobKill: Jakk: Definitely. As long as the interactive elements are legit -- purposeful. Lots of button-pushing isn't VVanP: So, why'd you bounce them? RobKill: going to do it by itself. /ga RELM Muse: I infected our supervisor here in Entertainment by giving her IMPOSSIBLE THINGS... BugsBnny: I gotta say, not to be a luddite or anything, but nothing will succeed but narrative. EllenDat: There are stories in my anthologies that I've reprinted there because I thought they were deserving even... RELM Muse: now she's not only reading SF, she went out & bought all of Connie's books. ;) EllenDat: though I turned them down for OMNI. E cat s: ROFL Muse.. Shadowjakk: The Websurfer dudes are becoming more adept at recognizing gratuitous content, yeah. BugsBnny: *Life* is interactive, and people abhor it. RobKill: Bugs: Couldn't agree more. We're not looking to replace narrative -- RobKill: by no means! Wst1955dd: with voulume of submissions, some one has to be rejected E cat s: Tireless adjitator that you are RobKill: We're just going to find ways of enhancing the "experience," not of reading itself, but of RobKill: discussing and thinking about what's read. EllenDat: WanP--various reasons: I didnt' feel they were appropriate for OMNI, my boss at the time thought I had too... EllenDat: much inventory or just didn't like it (some of my former bosses had to "approve".. BugsBnny: OK, real Q" Y'all see any future in "softbooks" (portable e-readers)? EllenDat: what I bought, most did not). Wst1955dd: YES VVanP: Thanks, Ellen. It seemed like a loaded question to me. E cat s: Bugs: you should see my screen saver RELM Muse: Bugs, I read all the OMNI novellas on my HP200LX. It's too expensive to be just.. RELM Muse: for books, but the technology is sure possible. RobKill: Bugs: I think there are possibilities, but only if the machines become much more comfortable. BugsBnny: E Cat, if you'd stop typing, you could see it.. then screen save, e-mail..... EllenDat: We want feedback from our audience. We hope that you'll keep coming back for... EllenDat: more. Wst1955dd: Bertleman pub empire will try some form of epub next year RobKill: I liked the idea in Neal Stephenson's THE DIAMOND AGE, which Phx8: kind of like the cat and curiousity? RobKill: has been getting some real-world discussion now too: a machine that's Shadowjakk: The primer? Yeah...that was elegant. RobKill: just like a book, with cover and pages, but the pages are E cat s: BB, that was *noy*a dumb remark! E cat s: no RobKill: a variable display surface. They'll display different books from memory. EllenDat: I do think that online one needs to make the text as readable as possible. VVanP: Rob, I saw that story on one of the news magazines. Evidently it's being done. RobKill: That would work -- all the advantages of a book, and the advantages of gigabytes of memory. BugsBnny: What about those of us who have laptops with tiny screens? aren't you asuming big monitors? RobKill: That's right, Wan. It may really happen. RELM Muse: Bugs, my HP200LX is about the size of a fat checkbook, and I have a reading .... BugsBnny: Well, "Noy" to you, too. RELM Muse: program that lets me turn it sideways, like a paperback. It weighs less than a paperback,.. RELM Muse: I can change the font, and font size, and put in bookmarks & notes. EllenDat: Bugs, they're working on mass market book size readers. BugsBnny: Well, you're an ealry adoptor, Muse. You probably have the first teleporter already. E cat s: Mine is a laptop. It runs a fancy SF-type screen saver. Relax,man RELM Muse: LOL Bugs RobKill: Bugs: We're designing with smaller screens in mind -- text will conform to whatever RobKill: screen size you have. RobKill: You may not get the full artistic design experience, but you can certainly RobKill: read our stories and columns on any size screen. EllenDat: Ah. But can you read it in the bathtub? RELM Muse: I have to check out my laptop tomorrow, next week's chat will be from Worldcon! T83BIRD: The DS9 readers are becoming a reality, then? Shadowjakk: No...but a sonic shower doesn't bother it. RELM Muse: Ellen, Laurie Mann uses hers there, but I hope she doesn't get clumsy. BugsBnny: Mine just goes black. I think I got a PantherBook 1400.... EllenDat: Muse, Right. EllenDat: More ?? RELM Muse: Do you have advertisers already for the first issue? RobKill: I don't know if the laptop batteries are powerful enough to electrocute you. But a dip in the tub wouldn't do VVanP: I do feel backwards about this advance in reading technology. I love to hold a book. RobKill: the machine any good. BugsBnny: Hmmm. What percetnage of your readers will print out a sotry to read? RobKill: Bugs: Who knows? They're welcome to do so. Gandalara: Rob - don't do a book any good, either :) Phx8: Likewise, VVan VVanP: I like to abuse it by putting it face down on a table. I don't mind buying a new one if I ruin the first. RobKill: Lots of folks did that at OMNI. BugsBnny: (heck, what percentage of typers can spell "percentage"?) EllenDat: The sf/f/h publishing community sponsoring our launch contest by... RobKill: Gand: Absolutely. Gotta be real careful reading in the tub. Phx8: % Gandalara: LOL EllenDat: supplying lots of great books for giveaways. BugsBnny: I mean, will you have format/print aids that'll optimize for that? RELM Muse: Yeah, Techyo had his Red Mars soak up all the bath water. ;) RELM Muse: Cool, Ellen! BugsBnny: LOL, Muse! Gandalara: Free books? Where do I sign up? :) Phx8: lol, Muse BugsBnny: the library, Gand, the library. RobKill: Bugs: Well, again, your browser will format the text for whatever printer you're using. VVanP: Will you folk have a table or something at WorldCon? RobKill: It'll be easy to do. Gandalara: pPppppP, Bugs Shadowjakk: I used *my* RED MARS to drain my pool. Wst1955dd: waiting for big wide screen TVs to have diskette slots, so plug in ebooks and lay on sofa and read EllenDat: Gandalara:Just come to the site and enter the contest. T83BIRD: LOL Shadow! RobKill: We're not going to have a table, but we'll have flyers, and we'll be talking it up everywhere we go. EllenDat: WanP: No but Rob and I will both be around. I'm having that kaffeeklaatch.. Gandalara: Er, I thought you could run the site address again, for newcomers :) EllenDat: which means you can sit around and talk with me --you have to sign up in advance I think. RobKill: Here you go: RobKill: http://www.e-horizon.com/eventhorizon Gandalara: Ellen - aren't you on some panels too? Wst1955dd: maybe OWC can listed it in newsletter too Gandalara: Thanks Rob :) RobKill: Right now all that's there is a "coming soon" page, but ... EllenDat: My kaffeeklatch is 10am Friday. ANd yes I'm on a bunch of... EllenDat: panels. And I'm doing an autographing. Bring books!!! RobKill: in two weeks it'll be the real thing. Drop by! Sign up for our newsletter! BugsBnny: I gotta go.... Hope y'all live long and perspire! RELM Muse: Ellen! Don't tell her that! She already sent me 20 pounds of books.. VVanP: I'm not getting into Baltimore until Wednesday afternoon. Kaffeeklatches (particularly yours) fill by then. EllenDat: Rob you're doing panels aren't you? Shadowjakk: Later, Bugs. RELM Muse: to take in my van so she can get them autographed! RELM Muse: See ya, Bugs! RobKill: Bugs: I'm perspiring enough right now. Thanks for coming! T83BIRD: Nite Bugs Phx8: Best wishes on your adventure, Ellen and Rob Gandalara: Goody. More books to buy :) Techyo: Hi ex fellow OMNIites. Gandalara: Tech!! Shadowjakk: Yo, Techyo. RobKill: Thanks, Phx! T83BIRD: Hi Tech Techyo: Hi ALL! RELM Muse: Hi Tech! Phx8: I think putting yourself on the 'cutting edge' is a good decision EllenDat: thanksBugs. RobKill: Well, we can also get sliced up good ... but we're hoping. Phx8: Best wishes. Gotta go. Bye RELM Muse: See ya, Phx! EllenDat: Hi Techyo! RobKill: Au revoir, Phx! RobKill: Hi, Tech! T83BIRD: Nite Phx8 EllenDat: Bye Phx Gandalara: Night Bugs, Night Phx TAMARAC223: Tech LTNS RELM Muse: Have questions for Ellen or Rob? Just ask! Shadowjakk: Less inventory of unsold issues though, Rob. :) RELM Muse: If I miss the question, ask again. :) EllenDat: Hey Rob, aren't you doing any panels? T83BIRD: Rob: Will you be publishing much hard SF? RobKill: BIRD: We're going to be all over the map, fiction-wise. Ellen's really in charge of that. EllenDat: T83 we'll be publishing a mix types of sf. RobKill: Ellen: I haven't even registered for the con yet. T83BIRD: Or will there be a lot of social SF? RELM Muse: Welcome to the newcomers! RELM Muse: Welcome to the Other*Worlds*Cafe chat RELM Muse: with Ellen Datlow and Rob Killheffer of EllenDat: Sorry, I meant a mix of types. RELM Muse: Event Horizon! Wst1955dd: amusing SF? T83BIRD: Gotcha, Ellen. Thanks. Shadowjakk: Let's kill two birds..."Socially amusing". :) EllenDat: We'll be publishing the kinds of fiction I published in OMNI but with a bit more horror. RobKill: The fiction will be very much like that we published in OMNI, since it's Ellen's eye that's RobKill: guiding things here, too. The main difference will be that we'll have T83BIRD: I don't want to be one of those birds, Shadow. Shadowjakk: LOL RobKill: fewer restraints in terms of genres -- more opening to horror, fantasy. Gandalara: LOL T E cat s: Hi Tech! RELM Muse: Another reminder to our audience: RELM Muse: Yes, it's time to order O*W*C T-shirts! RELM Muse: You'll find all the information at RELM Muse: http://www.webmoose.com/owc/misc-shirts.html RELM Muse: If you don't have my home address, you RELM Muse: haven't ordered yet! EllenDat: The K.W. Jeter, Ed Bryant, and Terry Dowling stories could all be considered horror.... EllenDat: although they're very different from each other. VVanP: Ellen, how will you measure your "success" with the zine? What goals have you set? EllenDat: The Cadigan is techhy sf. Shadowjakk: Magazines have long fostered the segregation of genre, because they speak to niche subscriber audiences... EllenDat: WanP To be able to publish more fiction as soon as possible and .,.. Shadowjakk: ...with wider access on the 'net, those distinctions aren't as important. EllenDat: pay more for it--by getting lots of visitors to our site and major corporate sponsorships. RobKill: Jakk: I also think that the current readership is more and more open to a broad mix. EllenDat: TO make it as interesting, edgy, inviting, etc as we can. Techyo: Why would that be, ROB? RobKill: There are devotees of one variety or another exclusively, but many readers RobKill: seem to pick from all over the place. EllenDat: Wouldn't mind being a bit provocative with our nonfiction too;> Techyo: I'm one of those but wonder why we just now showed up. RobKill: Tech: I think it's part of the ongoing evolution of SF/F/H literature, and literature in general. Shadowjakk: They do on the 'net, where access doesn't cost $4.95 an issue. RELM Muse: As long as it's not Lewinsky, Ellen. ;) Kakaze: Hi all! RELM Muse: Hi Kak! Gandalara: Hi Kak! EllenDat: LOL. T83BIRD: Hi Kak TAMARAC223: Kak! Techyo: She has tatoes, Muse? Kakaze: Oh...this is the "big" chat room. Ugh. EllenDat: Hi Kak. VVanP: So, who are the provocative writers whose manuscripts you'd love to see cross your desk? RobKill: The flowering of SF in the early part of the century ... Kakaze: Gand!!!! T!!! Tam!!! Muse!!! Ellen!!! RobKill: was followed by an accretion of styles and variations ... Shadowjakk: Hey, Kak. EllenDat: Well, I was actually talking about our columns--we've got Lucius Shepard who will discuss .... Kakaze: Shadow!!! RobKill: which led to the inevitable splintering into dozens of sub-subgenres ... EllenDat: passionately (as always) his favorite mainstream writer at the time....in the context of genre fiction. RobKill: but that fragmentation, when confronted by a generation that grew up with it, becomes a smorgasbord. Kakaze: Okay...I'm clueless...what're we talking about now? T83BIRD: Ellen: Will you be using science fact articles? Techyo: And Sub Genre "wars"? RobKill: The lines that originally split don't mean anything. Wst1955dd: ezines are also world wide mags not restricted like print mags Shadowjakk: Which ultimately coalesced back into a stronger genre, IMO...the bloodlines separated and re-merged... VVanP: Sounds good to me. I'll read it. EllenDat: Barry Malzberg writes about the state of sf. Doug Winter will be talking... Shadowjakk: ...and that strengthened the entire genre. RELM Muse: Kak, Ellen & Rob are telling us about their new webzine: Event Horizon Techyo: Agreed Shadow. EllenDat: about the state of the horror field. And Jack Womack will be.. RobKill: Jakk: D'accord. Kakaze: All that stuff about sub-subgenres is about the magazine? EllenDat: writing about aspects of his eclectic nf library of conspiracy theory books, etc. RELM Muse: It's about why people are interested in a broad range of specfic, Kak. RobKill: Kak: Techyo asked a question that was following up on my answer to a previous question that was directly Kakaze: Oh. T83BIRD: Re's, Ellen: Will you be using science fact articles? Techyo: Kak Rob has pointed out the mag won't have as narrow a view fictionaly as OMNI mag was constrained to. RobKill: related to the magazine. The thread ran a bit far afield, but just for a moment. Kakaze: Oh! EllenDat: Tbird--about science--possibly at some point if it relates to what we're... Kakaze: Omni didn't have much fiction from what I remember. EllenDat: doing with the rest of the zine. There are some interesting nf things Bruce ... Kakaze: The print version at least. Gandalara: I gotta go. Thanks Muse, Ellen, Rob. Talk to y'all later this weekend, if I can figure out the laptop! EllenDat: Sterling is involved with that we may want to eventually work with. Kakaze: Night Gand! RELM Muse: See ya, Gand! Shadowjakk: Night, Gand. T83BIRD: Thanks. RobKill: Bye, Gand! Thanks for coming. EllenDat: Bye Gandalara. T83BIRD: Nite Gand Techyo: Oh loved the hard science parts of OMNI I miss those. Especialy PJN's bits. Gandalara: (And hope the plane don't crash) TAMARAC223: Nite Gand Techyo: Night Gand. Shadowjakk: It's not a fashion show is it, Ellen? :) RobKill: Kak: The early OMNI -- 1980s -- had lots of fiction, sometimes four stories in an issue. It shrank as the Shadowjakk: LOL Kakaze: I liked Omni...I hated it that they stopped printing it. RobKill: whole mag did. VVanP: Rob and Ellen, who are your favorite fiction authors (the ones you want to see when you're opening fiction VVanP: submissions?) Techyo: Lost stories and the art. EllenDat: Rob, before that it started with 6 stories. Kakaze: I was just learning to read for the better part of the 80s. T83BIRD: You and me both, Kak. Wst1955dd: high print cost shrank all mags in the 80s RELM Muse: Rob, what about the art? Will you have "real" art to illustrate the stories, etc.? TAMARAC223: lol T Techyo: <== was charter subscriber. EllenDat: WanP: I hvae lots of authors whose stories I look forward to. Wst1955dd: of Omni? me too EllenDat: Rob? RobKill: Muse: At the beginning, not much -- we're cash poor, and so we're relying on my computer graphics for the Techyo: Those were good times, Wst. Kakaze: For this web magazine...do you take submissions from non professional authors? RobKill: art/design side. But we do have some artists we're talking to RobKill: about contributing in the future. We'd love to get stuff of T83BIRD: Ro RobKill: the quality of the old OMNI. Shadowjakk: Is there some fear that a true success in this medium will spawn endless imitators, which will fragment the... Wst1955dd: mags were 250 pages thick Shadowjakk: ...limited revenue that you acquire? VVanP: A nicely diplomatic answer, Ellen . T83BIRD: Rob: Talk to RIKnJAK. EllenDat: WanP--I try:> Kakaze: Thats not a magazine, Wst...Thats a catalogue. RELM Muse: I was just thinking that, T8. ;) T83BIRD: He did our T-shirts. TAMARAC223: I was just going to suggest that we know a good art person Kakaze: I can do art too...I just didn't submit any for the shirt, 'cause I couldn't find a DXF of a squid. RELM Muse: How long have you given yourself to "make it RELM Muse: Oops, "? on the end there. EllenDat: Wanp--you can see what writers I like by those that would appear over and over again in OMNI. VVanP: Good point. T83BIRD: GMTA, Muse RobKill: Well, we haven't set a specific cut-off date. Our costs are low enough at the moment that aol://9293:DreamMindr Kakaze: Ellen...Did you do anything other then Omni? I seem to connect your name to something else... RobKill: we have the ability to give the 'zine the time it needs to grow. RobKill: Obviously, if it never went anywhere, eventually we'd probably call a halt ... RobKill: but I don't really think that's going to happen. Wst1955dd: bite tongue Rob RELM Muse: Great, Rob. Is this a full-time job for you guys, or are you feeding yourselves with something else? Techyo: Be almost hard to go nowhere on the net. EllenDat: I've been editing the year's best Fantasy and HOrror with Terri Windling for 11 years--plus other anthos. ChrisEason: I dunno, tech. OMNI didn't! ;{< Kakaze: Maybe thats where I remember it from. Techyo: What is succes? EllenDat: It would also be nice to be able to support ourselves from the enterprise but... RobKill: Muse: Oh heavens no -- I'm earning my keep with other web work. We'd love to VVanP: They say in the business world that a start up operation needs 2 to 4 years to break even. Shadowjakk: Limited overhead seems to be one of the sources of appeal in this medium...limited, committed advertising... Techyo: OMNI worked at failing sorry. EllenDat: I'm not sure that will happen for awhile either. RobKill: see EH bring in enough to pay us all eventually, of course. Shadowjakk: ...revenue seems to be the stumbling block, though. VVanP: Most start up mags don't give themselves that much time. Kakaze: Omni worked at failing, Tech? DreamMindr: Hi RELM Muse: Hi Dream! Kakaze: Dream! Shadowjakk: Hi Dream. :) T83BIRD: Hi DreamM TAMARAC223: Dream! EllenDat: hi Dream RELM Muse: We're chatting with Ellen Datlow and RELM Muse: Rob Killheffer of Event Horizon, the new RELM Muse: SF/Fantasy/Horror webzine! Shadowjakk: Do you have committed advertisers? EllenDat: Well, it takes several years before a print magazine goes into the black so why should... DreamMindr: Hi Ellen and Rob! Its been awhile. EllenDat: it be different for a webzine? T83BIRD: And are there adverrtisers you'd like to have committed? RobKill: Hi, Dream. How've you been? RELM Muse: LOL T8 Araiused: Evening, folks. Shadowjakk: Hiya Ara. T83BIRD: Hi Ara RELM Muse: Hi Ara! EllenDat: Hi Araiused. RELM Muse: Welcome to the Other*Worlds*Cafe chat RELM Muse: with Ellen Datlow and Rob Killheffer of RELM Muse: Event Horizon! VVanP: I don't think it should be different at all. A zine needs time to develop a personality and readership. TAMARAC223: Hi, Ara! RELM Muse: Feel free to ask questions. :) ChrisEason: Hi, Ara! :{D VVanP: Most mags don't last long enough to get either. Kakaze: Do you charge for access to the magazine? Or is it supported entirely from advertising? Kakaze: Ara! DreamMindr: Not bad, Rob. Making more money, still having fun. Haven't noticed getting older yet. Shadowjakk: True...but true magazines are dealing with greater physical start-up costs. EllenDat: Kakaze. It's free. We plan to have it support itself with advertising of various types. RobKill: Glad to hear it. If this 'zine works, we'll be singing the same tune. EllenDat: Shadow--exactly. DreamMindr: LOL Wst1955dd: ads cost more to make in print mags too RobKill: Kak: Right now we won't be charging for access. Nor for the foreseeable future. Who knows RELM Muse: How far ahead do you have fiction for? RobKill: in what direction Internet publishing will go in years to come, though? RobKill: We may eventually do that, but not soon. EllenDat: At one story per month right now I've got enough through the end of the year. Kakaze: I've never been able to grasp the concept of internet publishing... Techyo: Is the fluidity(sic) of this medium exciting to you two? RELM Muse: You spelled it right, Tech. ;) Kakaze: I guess I'm too physical...I need to have a book in my hands. EllenDat: Tech--yeah --it's fun. Techyo: (Shoot blu my bit!) T83BIRD: Still, Ellen, what's your lead time on stories or articles? EllenDat: It took awhile to get used to it but we had two years at OMNI internet. RobKill: Tech: I do like the fluidity -- the speed of turnaround. I like the challenge of trying to Shadowjakk: Do you find that authors are opposed to this medium, or excited by the exposure it grants. It's a two-edged.. RobKill: do both the traditional magazine thing -- printing texts on a monthly schedule -- Kakaze: Why did Omni scrap its print magazine anyway? Wst1955dd: both Shadowjakk: ...sword, I'm sure, balancing excitement and income. Techyo: Costs Kak. RobKill: and also some of what radio and TV do -- provide live, real-time entertainment. EllenDat: Well, we haven't really developed a regular official production schedule yet but the first piece of fiction... EllenDat: has been ready for awhile. RobKill: The net is like a cross between print and TV. Kakaze: Oh. Techyo: I hope so Rob, I think you two are the people to pull it off at any rate. EllenDat: Shadow. Some authors seem hesitant, a very few downright hostile, but... RELM Muse: Ellen, you've made a lot of new writers into great writers. Do you expect to continue.. EllenDat: many seem neutral about it. RELM Muse: that kind of shepherding with the new 'zine? RobKill: Thanks for the vote of confidence, Tech. We'll need it -- it is still very early days in this RobKill: medium. EllenDat: Muse--oh yes, definitely. That's the best part of being an editor! RobKill: But we're excited, definitely. ChrisEason: Yeah, now that they have the elephant off their backs. ;{> EllenDat: Thanks Tech. Techyo: Exactly Chris. EllenDat: Hi Chris. Yup. RobKill: CE: Do you mean the elephant adorned with gold chains? Araiused: Isn't there another webzine by the same name, Event Horizon? RobKill: We're glad to have it gone. What a relief. Techyo: ROFL! Shadowjakk: I was reading Robert Silverberg's editorial in ASIMOV'S and he mentioned that he'd reached a point where... ChrisEason: Hi, Ellen! :{D RobKill: Ara: There was. RELM Muse: No, one of the four that rides on Great Atuin. ;) Shadowjakk: ..Future Shock was becoming an issue with older writers... Kakaze: I dont think I could ever be an editor...I don't even like critiquing the stories written in my CW class. Kakaze: Some people just can't write. EllenDat: It's nice working your a--off but doing it for yourself, not someone else. RobKill: We actually arranged with them to claim the name. They're changing theirs. VVanP: I think all authors applaud the opening of a new forum, whether it's electronic or print. ChrisEason: LOL Rob! Yeah, that one. Shadowjakk: ...do you find that younger writers are more excited about electronic publishing? Kakaze: I would think so Shadow... Kakaze: It's a cheap way for people to read your work. Wst1955dd: books will be on diskette or cd-rom, ebook pad, and online RobKill: Jakk: It's a toss-up. RELM Muse: Well, the authors are being paid by EH. T83BIRD: Kak, I'm not "younger," and I'm very, very excited about it. EllenDat: Shadow--not necessarily--I know one young writer who does not want to publish on the net. RobKill: Some younger writers are excited by the electronic scene because it's Kakaze: Shadow said younger. Kakaze: I just went with it. RobKill: easier to get "published" -- on the nonpaying sites and such. Techyo: (Consider our subject matter tonight could make an interesting story in itself) Kakaze: Replace younger with "new authors" maybe? VVanP: I think the uneasiness about e-zines is not the pay but the permanence. Wst1955dd: young people won't pick up a book and read but will read it off of Pc scrn for hours RobKill: But many younger writers are still focused on the print form, because that's still where the most visibility RobKill: comes from. It's still where a career gets built. DreamMindr: That's a good point, Wst. Araiused: Still, I like the feel of a book rather than a keyboard. RobKill: We, of course, are hoping to change that some. EllenDat: I'm surprised at how some of the younger writers feel about the internet--and chats!!! VVanP: For some authors, being paid, but having the story vanish into the ether is no fate to be wished for. Kakaze: How so, Ellen? T83BIRD: I hope you can do that, Rob. Wst1955dd: the game generation grew up to PCs VVanP: I disagree, Wst. They'll look at a screen for hours, but not to read fiction. EllenDat: Kak--well, we've been running live interview/chats for two years...many of the writers--including... Techyo: How's that Ellen other tha a distraction? Kakaze: No, Wst...The game generation grew up to Nintendo. Shadowjakk: Do you think that the abundance of bad, free fiction available on the 'net impacts your ability to showcase.. Shadowjakk: ...better work? EllenDat: hard sf writers seem technophobic. Some have no idea how to get.. Wst1955dd: nintendo got boring to surfing the web EllenDat: on the internet and have no particular interest in learning. And... EllenDat: I'm not speaking only of the older writers! T83BIRD: Ellen: I like the Internet and the O*W*C chat. Being of diff. gen. makes no diff. RobKill: Jakk: I don't think it's a major problem -- in fact, in some ways, it might even Kakaze: It's strange. Wst1955dd: talk is cheap online RobKill: be a benefit, in that there's not a lot of online competition. It would be harder to make Kakaze: Nintendo was there way before the web became popular. Kakaze: I should know... RobKill: a real impact in the print field, without a lot of money etc. EllenDat: Rob. I agree completely. T83BIRD: Wst: I mean it! RobKill: But all that lousy stuff out there has given some people the idea that the Wst1955dd: still have my old box RobKill: net is just one big slush pile ... T83BIRD: Back soon. NCG warning. RobKill: Again, we're aiming to prove that wrong. Kakaze: Delete that programme, T! Shadowjakk: That preassumes a discerning audience, of course. :) Kakaze: Norton is terrible! RELM Muse: I'd think that the OMNI name, attached to you guys as it is, would give.. RELM Muse: you some credibility to start with, even before folks read the zine. VVanP: What people really buy in a fiction magazine is the editing (although they don't often think of it that way). Kakaze: It's the media that gives the Net a bad name. EllenDat: Muse--we're counting on that. RobKill: Jakk: Sure, but all publishing in one way or another assumes that. RobKill: Or hopes for it. Araiused: I'm curious why did OMNI fold considering its popularity? EllenDat: WanP --most readers have no idea what an editor does. Techyo: LOL still comes down to the read doesn't it? Kakaze: Only the news at 11 can turn the 1% of the internet filled with porn into 90%. VVanP: I know, but the magazine they like, they like because of editorial choices. Techyo: Hard comparing it with Penthouse for money, I'd guess, Ara. RobKill: Ara: The tale of OMNI's decline and fall is too long to tell here. Suffice it to say Techyo: Revinew wise. RobKill: that it had much more to do with things within the parent company than Shadowjakk: There's some crossover and goodwill involved, too...I think that the editorial staff at OMNI lent nearly as... EllenDat: Ara--We really aren't free to talk about that in a public forum...perhaps informally in person some time:> RobKill: it did with the readership. Shadowjakk: ...much credibility to that magazine as occured in reverse. VVanP: I talk to young writers about that a lot. That factor (trust in the editor or name author) effects how a VVanP: reader reads. Araiused: OIC Wst1955dd: internal politics as usual Techyo: More Shadow. Techyo: But that's with us. EllenDat: Well, the editor imparts a personality to the magazine by buying.. EllenDat: certain kinds of fiction. But also, part of the editor's job is to work WITH an author on that fiction... Shadowjakk: True...but OMNI was a hybrid construct. Many SF fans read OMNI despite the fringe content. Kakaze: Fringe content? Araiused: Well, I thought OMNI was the best SF and science mag ever. :/ VVanP: The editor also stamps stories as "worth your time," so a reader will take a story that seems weird or EllenDat: and as far as I'm concerned to MAKE the author write the best story he/she can. DreamMindr: Are you doing anything with RealAudio or video? Such as author's interviews? Techyo: How does one spot an author who might make it.? VVanP: incoherent at first, and let it build to something wonderful. RobKill: Dream: We hope to use some of that fancier multimedia VVanP: But it comes from trusting that the first part of the story will pay off in the end. RobKill: at some point. Probably RealAudio stuff first. Trouble with RobKill: those things for author chats is the need for the guest to have a mike or a EllenDat: WanP: An editor, just like a reader, has to learn to trust a writer. VVanP: Good editors deliver on that promise to the readers every time. Techyo: That requiers a lot of bandwidth. RobKill: camera that can feed to us. Most of our guests have old 386 machines EllenDat: eg. I published a story by John Crowley called "Snow" that started... RobKill: that can barely get them onto the net in the first place. We can't ask them RobKill: to get a whole lot of equipment. Kakaze: 386 aside...Internet conferencing is still horrible. DreamMindr: Yes, I see. That old start up cost problem. EllenDat: slowly and oddly but because I trusted Crowley and it was worth the ride. The story was nominated for a Nebula Kakaze: Stick with regular text chat. DreamMindr: But that fancier stuff will pull the kids in. RobKill: But we do hope to do some multimedia stuff in a more "canned" form, such as interviews we might conduct at a Shadowjakk: That's a fine line to walk...access vs. glitz. Techyo: Yeah even with a good pent it doesn't work so well. But Dream has a point. RobKill: convention. Or "radio" drama. Stuff like that. EllenDat: so other readers/writers obviously felt that way too. Wst1955dd: stick to basics get fancy later Kakaze: Radio drama? Like the Alien Voices on the Sci Fi channel? RobKill: Wst: That's our plan. Whenever we get fancy, it will only be as an additional feature, bells and whistles, Techyo: Like The KING BISQUIT FLOUR hour? VVanP: I look forward to reading it! I guess what I'm saying is that slush reading and magazine reading is different EllenDat: Kak. Like the See Ear theater. RobKill: but not something that only those with the high-end tech can access. Shadowjakk: Hopefully it is, VV. :) Kakaze: See Ear theatre? VVanP: Poor editors or poor writers don't pay off in the end. EllenDat: It's on the sci fi dominion site and it's radio drama. Kakaze: Ah. EllenDat: Bisson's "They're made out of Meat" is read on the site and there's... RobKill: It's called "Seeing Ear Theater." VVanP: Event Horizon will make it if the fiction always pays off. It will separate itself from the editor wannabes VVanP: on the web. EllenDat: even animation. A lot of fun. RobKill: Kind of a joke on "seeing eye dog", stuff like that. Kakaze: I'll have to check it out. Techyo: Oh Allen Steele did a play for that with some friends I think. Kakaze: I rarely surf the web. I just check my news or stock. RELM Muse: Yep, he did Captain Future for it, didn't he? RobKill: Wan: That's what we're hoping -- that quality will win out in the end. EllenDat: Rob, no wonder I never remember the name. I didn't think of it that way. Techyo: Sounds right Muse. RobKill: It's an idealist's hope, but you gotta have something to believe in ... right? Shadowjakk: I think SF and speculative content webzines stand a better chance at succeeding than some other... Araiused: I agree, Rob :) RELM Muse: Sounds like a song cue, Rob. ;) VVanP: Absolutely, Rob. ChrisEason: Yup, Rob. EllenDat: Surfing the web is not all it's cracked up to be. I think it's better and more... Kakaze: We just did squid songs... Araiused: Elaborate, Shadow? Kakaze: I'm all squidded out. Shadowjakk: ...niche literature attempts because of the high crossover rate of computer literate people and spec-fic fans. EllenDat: useful if you know where you want to go--or at least what you're looking for. RobKill: If only we had some RealAudio streaming here, I would break into a verse or two ... T83BIRD: Thanks Muse for the back door. EllenDat: Shadow. I agree. Araiused: Oh, T, that's why I felt that draft :) Kakaze: Exactly, Ellen! RELM Muse: LOL T83BIRD: LOL Ara Techyo: o/` on the cover of the rolling stone o/` no wait wrong chat. ChrisEason: The problem with that is *finding* what you're looking for, Ellen. ;{> Kakaze: Just aimlessly surfing is boring. RELM Muse: For folks who've just come in, we're talking with Ellen Datlow and Rob Killheffer,... T83BIRD: Ara, AOL wouldn't let me back to the O*W*C mani screen. Shadowjakk: An online Western magazine might saunter off into the sunset quickly. 'Git along l'il goggie. RELM Muse: former editors at OMNI, about their new webzine: Event Horizon T83BIRD: main Shadowjakk: doggie, too. :) EllenDat: Chris--yeah. EllenDat: Same thing with a glamor magazine for women. RELM Muse: Feel free to ask questions! RobKill: Jakk: Hard to say. One thing the net does do well is cater to niche audiences EllenDat: Rob, but I don't think certain segments are online. Kakaze: Niche audiences? RobKill: whose adherents are scattered in many places. Maybe the Western readership would find a great Araiused: Well, cyberspace (Net) is something that SF has started. Kakaze: Like the sub cultures and what not? ChrisEason: That's the driving force, Rob. Carving out a niche and feeding it. Developing a "communiut" RobKill: opportunity on the net -- a way to tie their community together. RobKill: You never know. ChrisEason: and community too ;{> EllenDat: It's more likely for sf readers and biz people to be online than the western readership. Araiused: Cyber cowboys, Shadow... Shadowjakk: It does, Rob...but I'd like to see the correlation demographic between Louis L'Amour readers and 'net... Shadowjakk: ...subscribers. Shadowjakk: I think that SF readers would win that war. EllenDat: They might--but they'll never get ON the web in the first place. RELM Muse: I thought you meant Eskimo Telephones, Chrsi. RELM Muse: Er.. Chris. LOL T83BIRD: Easily, Shadow. RobKill: Ell and Jakk: Of course. I'm just talking theory ... ChrisEason: LOL Muse! DreamMindr: I have a suggestion. Its probably obvious, but get as many "related" sites to link to you as possible. RobKill: When Gibson wrote about cyberspace cowboys, he certainly wasn't talking about Techyo: Kind of hard to say Ellen the breakdown on who is online is changing rather quickly. RobKill: literal cowboys ... DreamMindr: Many would be flattered, and that's the cheapest advertising. RobKill: Dream: That's one of our major pushes. Ellen's already got a huge EllenDat: Dream--we plan to have lots of links to all sorts of appropriate sites. ChrisEason: Right, Tech. People are getting access by the millions ... Shadowjakk: He wasn't talking about literal computers, either...but that didn't stop him from altering the way an industry RobKill: number of sites selected with whom we're going to try to exchange RobKill: links. RELM Muse: Cool! We'd be glad to trade links for our website. :) VVanP: I'll be interested to see what the buzz is about Event Horizon at WorldCon. ChrisEason: Heck, even half the rednecks around south Georgia have 'net access now. Shadowjakk: ...tried to build itself into a fixed image. Araiused: A link to Webmoose, of course :) EllenDat: Muse--email me the url. Kakaze: Event Horizon isn't up yet, is it? RELM Muse: I will. :) Techyo: :::holding back Webmouse jokes::: T83BIRD: How about a link to Bullwinkle Moose, Ara? RobKill: Kak: We launch on August 14. Right now there's a "coming soon" page up. EllenDat: We'll have an email address where you can suggest weird, interesting, appropriate sites to me. RobKill: With a form where you can register for our newsletter. Shadowjakk: I think that's the first time I've seen those three words used in conjunction. :) Araiused: Rudolf the Reindeer wouldn't like that, T. Kakaze: I'll have to remember then...August 14... Shadowjakk: "Weird", "interesting", and "appropriate". EllenDat: We'll be passing out flyers for people to sign up at worldcon. Kakaze: Web Mouse? Disney in the 90s? T83BIRD: Rudolf is only seasonal, Ara. RobKill: Jakk: That's one of the neatest phenomena of recent years -- how Gibson, a guy who didn't actually Techyo: No Shadow I remember you using them at least twice in chats. RobKill: _use_ computers, grokked the aesthetic in such a way that he RobKill: influenced everyone who actually did work with the real machines. DreamMindr: Shadow, remember to this clientelle, weird and interesting *are* appropriate. EllenDat: Shadow--appropriate vis a vis our zine:> Shadowjakk: I agree, Rob...and he spawned a sub-genre that splintered off and then grafted itself back onto mainstream SF Techyo: And once had nothing to do with me. Kakaze: Grok...I love that word. It doesn't mean a single thing does it? RobKill: It's an old story in SF -- many great SF writers haven't been real scientists, haven't really known the nitty Araiused: Writer's genius, Rob :) Shadowjakk: ...for the greater glory of the genre. WAksel: Grokk, a Heinlein fan? RobKill: gritty of the tech, but they groove on the feel of it, they tap into the Techyo: Grok means to understand something till you are that thing, Kak. But then you don't grok it eh? RobKill: cultural and social implications and echoes. EllenDat: zeitgeist. RobKill: WAk: I've read my share of RAH, sure. Kakaze: So grok really does have a definition? Araiused: I grok the perfect way Kak is typing tonight :) RELM Muse: LOL Ara Shadowjakk: The CP archetypes are now as set in the genre's collective uncoinscious as finned rockets were 30 years ago. T83BIRD: Interesting, Rob. One of my faculty colleagues says only scientists can critique SF. RobKill: Kak: Sure enough. Comes from STRANGER IN A STRANGE LAND. Kakaze: I thought it was just a word you saw on Star Trek pins...I Grok Spock.. Araiused: Grammatically correct, punctuated and spelled. ;) RELM Muse: T8, they can critique the science, but it's speculative science, generally,... RobKill: T83: Well, some folks think that way. But I think it misses the point. Kakaze: Never read it, Rob. Though everyone tells me I should. RELM Muse: so the critiques can't be taken *too* seriously. Wst1955dd: wasn't that grope Spock? Kakaze: I've been practicing, Ara. :-p Araiused: Jeez, Wst T83BIRD: Agreed, Rob. They don't cut me any slack, however. RobKill: If SF is only supposed to be fictionalized research papers, I wouldn't be reading it. EllenDat: And some far future sf might as well be fantasy--in fact it IS fantasy. Techyo: Sounds more like they think SF should be science. No point in that. WAksel: Like Star Trek.... RobKill: T8: SF gets a weird rap in academia. Even now that it's "accepted," they take some Techyo: Well said Ellen! RobKill: weird angles on it. Araiused: Chip must read this. SF = F? ;) ChrisEason: The whole point of SF is to explore the possibile implications of technology ... you don't have to be a ... ChrisEason: scientist to do that. T83BIRD: I taught a course in Pop Lit, SF, and was told shouldn't have; I'm no scientist. Techyo: Ara we'll burn my coments after the chat right? Araiused: Or the impossible implications, Chris? Shadowjakk: Yeah...the difference between Brunner's CATCH A FALLING STAR and Tolkien's Rings trilogy is based purely on... Kakaze: Science Fiction and Fantasy are separated by a thin line. VVanP: Everyone who isn't in SF takes some weird angles on it. T83BIRD: Agreed, Rob. Shadowjakk: ...the types of alloys in the wardrobes. RELM Muse: Actually, Tech, I'm wondering if my log will pick up me herding people.. TAMARAC223: ack, T Wst1955dd: tech, we'll frame and sale them ChrisEason: That too, Ara! Kakaze: So its possible for SF to equal F. RELM Muse: from the other room here. I think I've got some editing to do. Techyo: LOL I was kidding. Kakaze: God! I feel like I'm back in physics class. T83BIRD: Yep, TAM. I thought the same. Araiused: Pure flimflam, T. RELM Muse: And of course, there are the authors who don't like to be called SF authors. Wst1955dd: move along you lttle chaters T83BIRD: Academic jealousy, Ara. Araiused: Yep. EllenDat: Muse, it may be that they're afraid they wouldn't be taken seriously if they aligned with sf. RobKill: T8: You could tell those critics that Dickens shouldn't be taught by anyone who isn't Kakaze: Ugh...Enough with the western stuff. RobKill: a professional factory manager ... T83BIRD: LOL Rob RELM Muse: Folks, let me remind you of tomorrow's topic; we'll be back in our regular room. DreamMindr: LOL RELM Muse: A sizeable portion of science fiction concerns RELM Muse: itself with growth and change on levels RELM Muse: personal, material, and spiritual. The Kakaze: Wasn't there a story called "Have Spaceship Will Travel?" RELM Muse: mechanics of metamorphosis in SF can RELM Muse: involve matters as individual as the travails RELM Muse: of adolescence, and as profound as racial RELM Muse: transcendence. Join RELMShadow in RELM Muse: O*W*C chat to discuss the genre's RELM Muse: Rites of Passage. ChrisEason: Good analogy, ROB! ::: chuckle ::: Techyo: Heinlein, Kak. Kakaze: One day, one of Shadows macros is going to punt half of AOL. RobKill: Kak: That was, I believe, HAVE SPACESUIT, WILL TRAVEL -- Heinlein. A novel EllenDat: Kak. Isn't it a juvenile by Heinlein. Shadowjakk: And Guilles DeMaupassant shouldn't be taught or critiqued by anyone not a Libertine. :) VVanP: Ellen and Rob, I'm about to put some kids to bed. Thanks for your time and answers. RELM Muse: See ya, VV! Araiused: Nite, VV! Shadowjakk: Night, VV. Kakaze: It's Spacesuit? ChrisEason: night, VV! EllenDat: WanP. nite. RobKill: Wan: Thanks for coming. See you in Balt? T83BIRD: Nite VV RobKill: Kak: Yes. TAMARAC223: Nite VV EllenDat: Guy de Maupassant wasn't a libertine. De Sade was. Kakaze: I was close. VVanP: I'll be in Baltimore. Look forward to meeting you. T83BIRD: Nite WanP RobKill: See you there, then. Goodnight! EllenDat: At least I don't think he was. WaNp come by and say hi. RELM Muse: Yep, and next Thursday, I'll be chatting from Worldcon! Araiused: Waahoo, Muse! Kakaze: Baltimore? That Fullerine thingie? Shadowjakk: Justine time with that comment, Ellen. :) EllenDat: LOL. that's bad really bad. Techyo: Take a pic of me to scare em with Muse. RELM Muse: So, any last questions for our guests? T83BIRD: LOL Tech RobKill: Kak: Fullerine? I'm talking about the World SF Con, which is in Balt next week. Araiused: I hope Event Horizon will soar into space like the proverbial comet, etc. etc. etc. ;) Kakaze: I know, Rob. Everyone here calls it Bucky. RELM Muse: Rob, he keeps joking about Bucky. RobKill: Jakk: Ouch! Wst1955dd: need a slogan for webmag TAMARAC223: lol Kak that one EllenDat: Right Buccaneer. Kakaze: It reminds me of Bucky Balls. Fullerines. RobKill: Ahhh.... regional humor. Kakaze: I love that word. Fullerine. RELM Muse: Rob, give us the URL to sign up for the mailing list again. :) EllenDat: Dont' forget to register for the newsletter. WAksel: Good luck with Event Horizon. Techyo: (reminding self I'm on AOL) DreamMindr: How did you choose the name? Kakaze: It just rolls off the tongue. RobKill: Ara: We'll be satisfied with being half as eternal as an actual event horizon. DreamMindr: Event Horizen, as in OMNI falls into the black hole and you stay outside? Kakaze: Isn't the convention supposed to come to Florida one year? RobKill: Here's the URL: DreamMindr: Just joking. RobKill: http://www.e-horizon.com/eventhorizon RELM Muse: LOL Dream Araiused: 2000 somewhen, Kak. T83BIRD: Thanks for the super chat, Ellen and Rob. (Not leaving yet.) Kakaze: Sure...After the end of the world it comes to Florida. RELM Muse: It's up for a vote this Worldcon, Kak. ChrisEason: Thanks, Rob! Techyo: But doesn't the even Horizen suck things in. TMTA Dream. Shadowjakk: Do you Guilles...er...guys plan to promote the magazine formally at the con? Kakaze: Well, put in a vote for me, Muse. RobKill: No problem. Glad to be here. A nice lively chat! EllenDat: It's been great. Kakaze: I wanna go to convention one year. RELM Muse: Costs money, Kak. ;) Kakaze: To vote you have to pay? ChrisEason: ::: firing up the web browser ::: ;{> RobKill: The horizon, unless I'm mistaken, is where everything STOPS. Where, from the outside, things seem perpetually EllenDat: We'll be leaving out flyers adn talking it up. RobKill: still. Eternal. DreamMindr: I'm glad you two got free of that bureaucracy and have your freedom. RELM Muse: Yep, Kak, gets you a supporting membership in the con that wins. T83BIRD: Of course, Kak. Techyo: Firing web browser. Araiused: Kak, after flipping a hundred burgers you can pay ;) Kakaze: Well, vote for Florida for me Muse, and I'll pay you when you come for the convention. Kakaze: :-) RELM Muse: Well, Rob and Ellen, thank you very much for being with us tonight! WAksel: If things go well, I'll seeyou two at WFC next year. Techyo: Not to be little the great work you did before I'm looking forward to the future. RobKill: Thanks, Dream. It's a tremendous relief! Kakaze: Never ever ever, in a million billion years, Ara! RELM Muse: It was a great chat, and we're looking forward to seeing the zine when it opens! RhoadKyll2: we have more than enough convention space here Techyo: BTW thanks for what you've done so far. ChrisEason: Thanks, ellen and Rob. Good to see you again! :{D Araiused: Thank you, Rob and Ellen! RobKill: WAk: Hope so. I love that con! EllenDat: Muse, you were a great host and everyone was a terrific audience. Shadowjakk: We're looking forward to the 14th. :) EllenDat: Thanks for being so supportive. WAksel: Best one of them all RobKill: Thank you all for coming! Tune in on the 14th! Kakaze: Night whoevers leaving! RELM Muse: Folks, our time is up here, but feel free to move to our chat room and chat more. :) RobKill: And sign up for our newsletter! T83BIRD: I'm looking forward to meeting all of you on August 8. RELM Muse: If you have any problems, use keyword: NOTIFY AOL! Kakaze: Slan slan! WAksel: Where do we sign? TAMARAC223: Thanks, Rob and Ellen RELM Muse: Have a good night! RobKill: I have to go. But perhaps Muse will have us back sometime. T83BIRD: Nite Muse Araiused: Nite, Muse! Stngnslm: sorry i missed the show:) but it took a while to get here. Techyo: Night ALL! TAMARAC223: Thanks Muse RELM Muse: Oh, be nice, and I'm sure we will. ;) RobKill: WAk: once more, the URL: WAksel: Look forward to it. RobKill: http://www.e-horizon.com/eventhorizon EllenDat: You're welcome. Good night. I have gotta get to bed. Kakaze: I'm sure you could come by during a regular chat, Rob. RELM Muse: Good night, folks! Kakaze: We don't bite...much. Shadowjakk: Night, Ellen...Rob. :) RELM Muse: Thanks again, Ellen & Rob!