The opinions expressed in this chat are not necessarily those of The Other*Worlds*Cafe or America Online. RELM Muse: Hi Gand! Gandalara: Yo :) RELM Muse: Do you like the SciFi Channel? Their RELM Muse: online version, scifi.com, has hired our RELM Muse: guest, Ellen Datlow, as their Fiction Editor! Gandalara: Hi Ellen! EllenDat: Hi. Stargazer029: That was a fabulous magazine - used to read it all the time OnlineHost: TAMirabile has entered the room. RELM Muse: Hi TAM! RELM Muse: Welcome! You've found the RELM Muse: Other*Worlds*Cafe and we're talking RELM Muse: to Ellen Datlow! EllenDat: Yes, it certainly was beautiful. RELM Muse: Yes, I met Ellen when I volunteered for OMNI on AOL. :) Stargazer029: I still have a few of the old ones around OnlineHost: HeyPaulS has entered the room. Silverjlw6492574: <--father took Omni. think I teethed on it RELM Muse: Hi Paul! RELM Muse: Welcome to the Other*Worlds*Cafe! RELM Muse: Ellen Datlow is our guest tonight talking RELM Muse: about being Fiction Editor at scifi.com! Gandalara: So, has she told us all the stuff she's gonna change at scifi.com yet? :) TAMirabile: Hi, Muse! HeyPaulS: hi guys TAMirabile: Hi, Ellen! RELM Muse: Mostly she's told us about what she's bought so far. Feel free to ask questions! EllenDat: Well, Gandalara, first thing I do is put fiction on the site--there hasn't been any before. EllenDat: So it's a whole new ballgame! EllenDat: Hi tam, EllenDat: I'm not sure when we'll launch. Probably some time in March. Gandalara: Any authors lined up yet? ZemogDenise: Gotta run Good Luck Ellen Triad3204: What's the situation with Event Horizon? Have you left that position? HeyPaulS: Are you taking fiction anyone or just pros? OnlineHost: ZemogDenise has left the room. EllenDat: Yup. I was saying that I've bought work from Jim Blaylock, Barry Longyear, Howard Waldorp.. EllenDat: Jeffrey Ford, Steven Utley, Linda Nagata and Ian McLeod --oh yeah and Rick Bowes. so far. EllenDat: I'm taking unsolicited mss as well. EllenDat: Event Horizon is on hiatus. Gandalara: Longyear and Nagata. Cool :) RELM Muse: Paul, she's already put the address up, I'll put it in the log file description. :) EllenDat: And unless someone gives us lots of money it won't be coming back. EllenDat: Neither Rob nor I can afford to work for free any more. HeyPaulS: Understandable RELM Muse: Were you short of advertisers? HeyPaulS: How long should a story take to get to the plot? I've been reading Absolute Magnitude and EllenDat: We had no one to pursue advertisers and when I say pursue, I mean it... HeyPaulS: I"ve had to be very patient for the plot to go somewhere. EllenDat: we're owed money from DD Book club that we''ll never see as it's not... EllenDat: worth our time to go after. EllenDat: You need a full time ad person to do that. RELM Muse: Wow. I never thought they'd back off on a debt. That's the SFBC. Log Count: There were 9 member(s) in Other Worlds SF Chat at 10:30 PM EllenDat: I'm sure it just slipped their minds--that they have ads all over the place. EllenDat: Paul--it completely depends on the story. Gandalara: Some fan out there must be a debt collector that could help out :) EllenDat: LOL. EllenDat: But you need someone to go after the ads. People say they want to advertise then never ... EllenDat: follow through--even if htey SWEAR they're taking an ad. RELM Muse: AbMag is a semiprozine, Paul, I think. EllenDat: Even when they come to you. It's frustrating. EllenDat: There are stories that don't have heavy plotting but are still wonderful stories. HeyPaulS: How much does it cost to place a basic sort of ad? I've been worried that if I do get a HeyPaulS: novel published they won't put anything behind it and let it die. EllenDat: The job of the author is to keep you engaged whether there's a traditional plot or not. RELM Muse: Sure, we were just talking about "The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas" last.. EllenDat: It depends on where they're advertising. the NY Time is very expensive. Placing an ad in... RELM Muse: week. Not a very intricate plot, but a strong story. EllenDat: Ab. Mag would probably be quite cheap (but wouldn't reach as many people). RELM Muse: And Warren can be difficult. EllenDat: (Well, that I wouldnt' know about :>) RELM Muse: LOL S'okay, I'm not a professional, I can state my opinion. EllenDat: I don't know if you'd deal with him re: ads anyway. EllenDat: But maybe, as he's publisher as well as editor. EllenDat: Did you hear that SF Age has been shut down? RELM Muse: No! HeyPaulS: What! Gandalara: What? RELM Muse: I just got an issue -- what happened? HeyPaulS: What about ROF? EllenDat: I guess they weren't making enough profit. Their circ was way down. EllenDat: For now RoF is ok. Scott left and took another job elsewhere. EllenDat: He's with a satellite tv mag I think. RELM Muse: Oh, that's too bad. Wonder if we'll get our money back. RELM Muse: They had some really good stories. Stargazer029: Sorry, I must go. Thanks Ellen and RELM - it was interesting! EllenDat: They may want to give you one of their other mags. OnlineHost: Stargazer029 has left the room. EllenDat: By Star. HeyPaulS: "not enough profit" - so they were making money? RELM Muse: Night, Star! RELM Muse: I don't think I'd want one of their others - they've got RoF, the SciFi Channel Mag,.. RELM Muse: and another TV mag, don't they? EllenDat: I think they might have been coming out even. EllenDat: Also a wrestling mag. RELM Muse: LOL Well, in that case, I definitely don't want another mag. ;) Gandalara: Not enough money for bonuses :/ HeyPaulS: Sigh. I guess I won't wait for their rejection letter. EllenDat: Pat Cadigan and Doug Winter and Dennis Etchison wrote pieces for it (the wrestling... EllenDat: mag.) HeyPaulS: They take fiction? RELM Muse: On the other hand, Paul, you can send it out right away. EllenDat: Nonfiction. RELM Muse: Cadigan writes good non-fiction, too. I remember the piece she did for.. RELM Muse: OMNI on the traveling freak show. HeyPaulS: Oh, well. I didn't have any stories about wrestlers anyway. EllenDat: Right. She is good at nf too. Silverjlw6492574: paul, they didn't even bother sending me a rejection letter. Even sent the manuscript back Silverjlw6492574: missing pages. Haven't flet the same about SF Age since HeyPaulS: such is life EllenDat: I've been getting reprints from people unsolicited and just have been scribbling on their... RELM Muse: That is kind of odd, Silver, as if they particularly liked some pages and not the rest. EllenDat: letters and popping them back into their envelopes. Obviously, my market report .. Silverjlw6492574: asked for them back and never got a reply EllenDat: was not clear enough that I didn't want reprints from anyone I hadn't asked. Silverjlw6492574: Okay though I'll take the material elsewhere RELM Muse: Ellen, where would you recommend novice writers to submit? HeyPaulS: Not neccessarily. Sometimes people don't read the Writer's Market, etc EllenDat: To the top paying markets first and then work your way down. EllenDat: I bought Ted Chiang's first story. Gandalara: Authors write; they don't read instructions :) EllenDat: If a story is good enough it doesn't matter if you haven't sold before. RELM Muse: LOL OnlineHost: GOEB51 has entered the room. RELM Muse: Hi GOEB! RELM Muse: Welcome! The new Fiction Editor for RELM Muse: scifi.com, Ellen Datlow, is here! EllenDat: Any other questions? RELM Muse: Although sometimes stories change when they're republished as books --... HeyPaulS: Oh, pressure. RELM Muse: I remember the story you had in OMNI, something like "Isabel Avens in the Spring".. HeyPaulS: what do you think of the influence of literary types on SF? RELM Muse: and I didn't really "get' it, but when I read the book it became it made a lot more sense. EllenDat: Right. That was originally in my UK edition of Little Deaths. Gandalara: Ellen do you think there will be pressure to have stories on scifi.com that are tie-ins Gandalara: with their TV shows? Eeeek. RELM Muse: LOL Gand EllenDat: It was later part of M. John Harrison's novel Signs of Life. EllenDat: I loved it as a story. RELM Muse: Right, I read the novel and suddenly the story made sense, where it hadn't before. EllenDat: Gandalara, I doubt it. They wouldn't have hired me if that's what they wanted. Gandalara: I'm a suspicious person. RELM Muse: But they may go the other way -- Ellen says Scifi might do a short film.. RELM Muse: based on one of the stories. Gandalara: Now *that* would be cool. EllenDat: They're not going to get huge amounts of traffic from fiction so they DO want teh prestige. EllenDat: If some of the stories get nominated for awards and/or win them I think that would make .. EllenDat: them very happy. RELM Muse: Oh, I think if word gets out that they've hired you, they'll get more traffic. TAMirabile: A SF film made by someone who knows something about SF? hmmmmmm RELM Muse: You've been on the Hugo ballot almost every year. RELM Muse: LOL TAM EllenDat: And they'll definitely be making audio dramas from teh stories. RELM Muse: Some of the audio dramas are *very* good. Gandalara: Audio dramas? EllenDat: TA--never happen. RELM Muse: I liked the one they did of Allen's Captain Future. TAMirabile: LOL I can dream, can't I? RELM Muse: Gand, Scifi.com has Seeing Ear Theatre -- like radio shows in streaming audio. EllenDat: Seeing Ear Theatre does readings and audio dramas. They did "They're Made out of Meat" by... EllenDat: Bisson, too. Gandalara: Oh. OK. Was thinking tapes ... Log Count: There were 9 member(s) in Other Worlds SF Chat at 10:45 PM EllenDat: And a Harlan story. RELM Muse: I like Bisson's "Hole" stories best. OnlineHost: GOEB51 has left the room. HeyPaulS: Did you catch my question? EllenDat: I don't think so... repeat it. HeyPaulS: Stuff scrolls by fast I know HeyPaulS: I wanted to know what you thought of the influence of "literature" on SF. EllenDat: Ah. I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean what happens when mainstream writers try sf? EllenDat: Or what? EllenDat: I think it's important for sf writers to be as skillful with words as good mainstream writer RELM Muse: The URL for Seeing Ear Theatre is http://www.scifi.com/set/ HeyPaulS: Well, I like the idea of learning from traditional literature, but I don't awasnt SF EllenDat: writers.ga HeyPaulS: want SF prose to turn into Joseph Conrad or to lose the ideas that make up HeyPaulS: the back bone of SF EllenDat: No. I agree. But the best sf can do both. Gandalara: My old puter couldn't handle Seeing Ear. Now it can :) EllenDat: Be literate and be about ideas and the possible impact of technology on how we live... EllenDat: in the future. RELM Muse: And you can buy them on tapes, too. HeyPaulS: The prose has been getting . . .dense. I tried reading Gene Wolfe and had to reread HeyPaulS: each paragraph. RELM Muse: I think some SF *is* literature, while some mainstream stuff is schlock. HeyPaulS: just to figure it out. EllenDat: Wolfe has always been dense. His short stories are more accessible for hte most part. EllenDat: Sure, Muse. OnlineHost: SDalyIrish has entered the room. RELM Muse: Hi SDaly! EllenDat: I've just taken one of his stories for YBFH. RELM Muse: Do you like the SciFi Channel? Their Gandalara: :::looking around for Ara::: (Our resident Wolfe fan) RELM Muse: online version, scifi.com, has hired our RELM Muse: guest, Ellen Datlow, as their Fiction Editor! SDalyIrish: Hello Muse. EllenDat: it's a horror story. RELM Muse: She'll be here soon, Gand, I just got her report. :) Gandalara: You should ask Sheffield and Kress to co-write a short story :) RELM Muse: Cool! Speaking of the books, have you stopped the Fairy Tale anthologies? EllenDat: The last adult fairy tale antho is coming out next month. EllenDat: Black Heart, Ivory Bones. HeyPaulS: Hey, I'll be sending her something. I don't need any more competition. EllenDat: We've got a children's fairy tale antho coming out from S&S/Aladdin. Gandalara: Ebony and Ivory, Ellen? RELM Muse: Neat! Who's writing for the children's antho? Triad3204: Do you still feel that short work plays an important part in science fiction? EllenDat: It's called A Wolf at the DOor and it's for 8-12 year olds. We've got some nice stuff for it EllenDat: Tanith Lee, Kelly Link, Michael Cadnum, Gregory Maguire... Triad3204: And how do you feel an on-line forum like SciFi.com can be a meaningful part of that? HeyPaulS: It would be hard to write for children. I'd want to say something worthwhile but without HeyPaulS: talking down to them. EllenDat: Jane YOlen, Kathe Koja...Delia Sherman and some others. OnlineHost: SDalyIrish has left the room. EllenDat: Triad. I think short ficiton is crucial to the health of the field. Gandalara: Half of the authors Ellen talks about, I've never heard of :/ HeyPaulS: Cant read everything Gand RELM Muse: More to read, Gand. :) EllenDat: Hopefully it will bring sf stories to the readership of SCIFI.COM. EllenDat: Don't know if that would happen but it would be nice. TAMirabile: Maybe if you read sometimes, Gand/ RELM Muse: I think the novella is the natural length for most SF. EllenDat: Greg Maguire wrote Wicked about the Wicked Witch of the East. Gandalara: :-)~ EllenDat: (or maybe west:>)' HeyPaulS: I've heard that Short fiction is where most of the experimentation takes place EllenDat: That's definitely true Paul. That's because if you screw up you didnt' spend half a year .. EllenDat: on it (hopefully). RELM Muse: LOL EllenDat: Well, I've been getting terrific novellas. Triad3204: What I find interesting is that SF is so much more effective in the short medium than most.. HeyPaulS: A half year? I spend two years on the novel I'm pushing. RELM Muse: They seem to have enough length to develop the story, but not need padding. RELM Muse: Why do you think so, Triad? EllenDat: I agree. Most novels seem padded to me. HeyPaulS: I've heard the padding is because of economy of the publishing trade Triad3204: In addition to all the things that good non-genre work can be, SF also has (at its core)... EllenDat: It's because you can't sell novellas to book publishers. Triad3204: ...the "idea". You can present a clever new idea in 1000 words, and immediately distinguish EllenDat: Many of the classic novels are actually very short. Triad3204: your story from a dozen others using different ideas. HeyPaulS: Like the Foundation books RELM Muse: Ellen, maybe that will change when we have more electronic publishing. RELM Muse: Did you see B&N bought servers, software, etc., from IBM that will let.. RELM Muse: them print a book onsite in five minutes? EllenDat: I don't know why that would make a difference. HeyPaulS: Cool. EllenDat: that's neat. OnlineHost: FTomAlbert has entered the room. RELM Muse: Well, the reason novellas don't sell is because they're "too short." EllenDat: Word processing might have influenced writers to write long. RELM Muse: It won't matter if you can have it right at hand electronically. RELM Muse: Hi FTom! RELM Muse: Welcome! You've found the RELM Muse: Other*Worlds*Cafe and we're talking RELM Muse: to Ellen Datlow! FTomAlbert: Hi Muse :-) FTomAlbert: Hello Ellen :-) EllenDat: but you can't sell it as a novel. It's still a novella. In the old days...many of the novels HeyPaulS: It happened in acadamia. The average Ph'd diseration went from 300 to 800 pages EllenDat: WERE really novellas. Like Some of Your Blood. EllenDat: Hi tom, RELM Muse: Right, but publishers don't have to put so much into it if it's going to be published.. HeyPaulS: hi tom RELM Muse: electronically. They can even actually pay authors by book. EllenDat: Muse, maybe. Triad3204: Back when magazines would publish a novel in every issue -- and sometimes only be 35,000 Triad3204: words. FTomAlbert: ((Hi HPS :-)) EllenDat: A novel is officially 40,000 words or over. Triad3204: Plus, publishers seem to like big books because buyers feel they're getting more value from Triad3204: a thicker book. Triad3204: No physical book, and the size of your spine probably ceases to be so important. RELM Muse: They're harder to hold, and I don't like padding. EllenDat: It's hard to read a hardcover doorstop. RELM Muse: Right, Triad. People will be more likely to buy by word of mouth. Log Count: There were 9 member(s) in Other Worlds SF Chat at 11:00 PM OnlineHost: TCoehoorn has entered the room. RELM Muse: Hi TC! RELM Muse: Welcome to the Other*Worlds*Cafe! RELM Muse: Ellen Datlow is our guest tonight talking RELM Muse: about being Fiction Editor at scifi.com! Silverjlw6492574: true, pub. I'm currently playing waiting game with looks suggests 75,000-125,000 words RELM Muse: Ellen, do you have a guess about when you'll launch the fiction site? FTomAlbert: ((oh...so THAT's what she does! ;-) )) EllenDat: Some time in March. RELM Muse: (Feel free to ask questions, folks!) EllenDat: But it depends when I get what I consider the "lead" story. RELM Muse: Oh, that's pretty soon! Triad3204: Big fat books do seem fairly limited to our little genre, though. Mysteries, for example, Triad3204: are still skinny. EllenDat: Pat Cadigan has promised me one but she's finishing up her novel so I don't see how she... Gandalara: (Checking out all the new people's profiles) EllenDat: can do it in a timely manner FTomAlbert: :-) RELM Muse: What's her new book about? Silverjlw6492574: okay - have you ever had difficulties w/ being a woman working in SF genre? EllenDat: Well, I didn't say early March Muse EllenDat: Muse, it's with the same detective as in Tea from an Empty Cup. Silverjlw6492574: I have personally had a couple of run in w/ "stuff shirts" EllenDat: Silver. Nope. EllenDat: Never. RELM Muse: Oh, cool! I liked that. EllenDat: No more than normal jealousy and suspician of someone new in the field. OnlineHost: GSHIRLEYROBERT has entered the room. RELM Muse: Hi GS! EllenDat: She's contracted for one more after this one. RELM Muse: Welcome! The new Fiction Editor for RELM Muse: scifi.com, Ellen Datlow, is here! OnlineHost: GSHIRLEYROBERT has left the room. Triad3204: What would constitute a "lead" story for you? What qualities would it need to have? Silverjlw6492574: I live in a very traditional area though. Too many who consider SF not legitimate writing RELM Muse: I guess GS wasn't impressed. ;) EllenDat: A name who is recognizable or who has a "hook." And a strong, accessible honest to god sf st EllenDat: ...story. EllenDat: Pat's "hook" is that she's the "Queen of Cyberpunk"-LOL RELM Muse: Silver, but you're not submitting to the local paper, are you? FTomAlbert: yes.....SF has some bleed off into the Fantasy area. RELM Muse: Ellen, I sent her the clip about that years ago. :) Silverjlw6492574: horror! NO! EllenDat: The top people unfortunately are tied up right now or are not writing stories any more. EllenDat: Oh good. OnlineHost: T83BIRD has entered the room. RELM Muse: Hi T8! RELM Muse: Do you like the SciFi Channel? Their RELM Muse: online version, scifi.com, has hired our RELM Muse: guest, Ellen Datlow, as their Fiction Editor! T83BIRD: Hi, all. Silverjlw6492574: But i am a student and have gotten flack from certain amle professors RELM Muse: Ellen, a lot of authors (and fans) died last year. What do you think about how.. Silverjlw6492574: male that is RELM Muse: some of the estates are paying other authors to continue the series? HeyPaulS: It may have as much to do with literary taste as gender, Silver Gandalara: Show them up, Silver. Publish, and say nyah-nyah :) T83BIRD: Not guilty, Silver. I'm a *retired* professor. RELM Muse: Silver, or even just their academic stodginess. EllenDat: Muse, I think it's gross. Cannibalism. FTomAlbert: I'm enjoying the heck out of Farscape. Silverjlw6492574: just the region I think. Not too big a SF base here OnlineHost: Araiused has entered the room. EllenDat: I really hate media tie-ins and sharecropping in someone else's universe. RELM Muse: I can see that their estate may want more money coming in, but it degrades.. Araiused: Hi, all! RELM Muse: the name of the author. RELM Muse: Hi Ara! RELM Muse: Welcome! You've found the RELM Muse: Other*Worlds*Cafe and we're talking RELM Muse: to Ellen Datlow! T83BIRD: Heyla Ara OnlineHost: RowrBasil has entered the room. HeyPaulS: That's what Card said, and then he did it. He wrote a Hari Seldon story. RELM Muse: FTom, I think it's the best SFTV right now. EllenDat: It hurts the field and it hurts writers, especially younger ones who are not developing ... RELM Muse: Hi Rowr! EllenDat: their own voices. RELM Muse: Welcome to the Other*Worlds*Cafe! RELM Muse: Ellen Datlow is our guest tonight talking RELM Muse: about being Fiction Editor at scifi.com! T83BIRD: Hi Rowr HeyPaulS: Hi Ara HeyPaulS: What annoys me is that only about a 1/4 of the shelf is real SF. RELM Muse: I've begun to wonder if McCaffrey is preparing folks to take over certain series. EllenDat: Did you see the interview with Card on Salon? HeyPaulS: The rest is Star Wars, Star Trek, and hack and slash. T83BIRD: No. RowrBasil: uh? RELM Muse: I did. Did you read Spinrad's letter? HeyPaulS: no. EllenDat: Awful, self-indulgent interview that makes him and his interviewer look really bad. RELM Muse: Hang on, I've got the URL, I think. EllenDat: What did Norman say about it? HeyPaulS: That's too bad. EllenDat: McCaffrey has authorized her son to take over some of her characters. Silverjlw6492574: I seldom go to the new book stores ant more for that exact reason RowrBasil: Orson Still holding those nuremberg-esque rallies to promote his work? EllenDat: I didn't know he did that. RowrBasil: manner of speaking.. HeyPaulS: What are you talking about Rowr? RowrBasil: I recall some lobbying and campaigning Card did when trolling for awards.. T83BIRD: :::waiting for Card interview URL::::: EllenDat: that was several years ago. RowrBasil: I promise, I will someday actually read Enders Game or whatever that was.. HeyPaulS: LOL HeyPaulS: That was the title. RELM Muse: Salon is slow, T8, just a bit more. T83BIRD: NP, Muse. Just didn't want to seem to be lurking. EllenDat: Did Spinrad respond to the interview or something? RELM Muse: Here's the interview: RELM Muse: http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2000/02/03/card/index.html OnlineHost: SMKJR has entered the room. RELM Muse: (close that back up) RELM Muse: Hi SMK! RELM Muse: Welcome! The new Fiction Editor for RELM Muse: scifi.com, Ellen Datlow, is here! Araiused: Hi SMK RowrBasil: May be me, but I havent enjoyed much SF written since, say, 1979. RELM Muse: Yeah, Spinrad and many others. TAMirabile: Rowr, Enders is well worth reading-----some TAMirabile: fascinating things on the internet and opinion EllenDat: I only saw a few letters. Is htere a section that has all of them? RowrBasil: I'll get to it, eventually. RELM Muse: PNH posted the URL for the Spinrad letter, I'm still looking for that. EllenDat: Rowr it IS you. there's plenty of great stuff out there....short and long. FTomAlbert: (( well, excuse me....I'm going to go visit scifi.com lol )) EllenDat: Well...short anyway. I rarely have time to read sf novels. OnlineHost: FTomAlbert has left the room. RowrBasil: probably so..just dont like the future, now that I'm living in it. TCoehoorn: i live in a little town w/ a little life , all i want out of scifi is a good story Log Count: There were 13 member(s) in Other Worlds SF Chat at 11:15 PM HeyPaulS: I think people who are looking back at the past and miss it have worse vision with hindsight SMKJR: You are right RowrBasil, since RAH and Zelzany died few new authors have met the task. HeyPaulS: Most of my favorite authors are alive. RowrBasil: 'This is not the 2000 I had in mind. I want a refund on this century.' HeyPaulS: In SF anyway.\ T83BIRD: LOL TC EllenDat: Give it a chance.... EllenDat: It may be better than you think:> Silverjlw6492574: already better than mant predicted TCoehoorn: hey t38 SMKJR: We should be on Mars now T83BIRD: And have visited the bars long since, SMK. RowrBasil: it's probably going to be a depressing mess. No since getting hopes up. HeyPaulS: What surprises me is that SF has to struggle to keep up with Science, when it used to be HeyPaulS: reverseed OnlineHost: RELM Muse has left the room. T83BIRD: bye Muse Araiused: oops EllenDat: Well, I think it's all kind of synergistic. Scientists influence writers and vice versa. TAMirabile: ooops Araiused: Lost our host ;) Gandalara: She said she'd be right back HeyPaulS: But I don't think most writers realize yet just how profound tech could change things. Gandalara: Aol stuck on her. T83BIRD: Ellen, the religious right believes it's *sinergistic.L* RowrBasil: I think I like alternate history as it appeals to sense of regret, tragic choices.. EllenDat: They think a lot is. SMKJR: This is a good room. I'll see you all again. T83BIRD: L is an error. HeyPaulS: Bova writes about nanotech, but doesn't realize it would end capitalism. Araiused: See ya, SMK T83BIRD: bye SMK EllenDat: There are too many alternate histories around. HeyPaulS: eventually, anyway RowrBasil: Not enough good ones. OnlineHost: SMKJR has left the room. EllenDat: the field is supersaturated with them. T83BIRD: Harry Turtledove helps that along. HeyPaulS: I haven't been reading them. Well, one or two. RowrBasil: Have you seen history..anybody working on alternatives has my blessing.. EllenDat: I cringe when I get an alt. history mss. HeyPaulS: I'll try to remember that. Silverjlw6492574: well, have class at 8am and baby that rises by 5am. Goodnight all. I'll be here tomorrow n Silverjlw6492574: ight EllenDat: Unless it's from Waldrop. He still does wonderful ones. RowrBasil: I cringe when I look out my window. T83BIRD: Nite Silver Araiused: Nite, Silver HeyPaulS: night Silver TAMirabile: Night Silver OnlineHost: Silverjlw6492574 has left the room. EllenDat: Poor Rowr. Triad3204: Societal changes always seem the hardest for SF authors to produce. Look back at the SF of EllenDat: Hmmm. Wonder if Muse will be returning. Triad3204: the '50s. People smoking cigarettes and wearing 1950s suits until the end of days. HeyPaulS: I was thinking about writing a story "Evil Empire" about the US as the Evil Empire T83BIRD: She'll try hard, Ellen. TCoehoorn: scifi will never have to struggle to keep up w/ science Araiused: She will be, Ellen EllenDat: But that' s what some of them did/do best. LeGuin for example. Gandalara: Ellen - do you have a favorite author? Or is that a fair question? :) HeyPaulS: I suprised myself at how little of the 19th Century I had to change Gandalara: Ellen - AOL froze up on her. She IM'd me from another name Araiused: She's back on. EllenDat: Gandalara, no I don't. I have favorite stories. Triad3204: RAH, of course, was better than most (and was promptly accused of supporting every OnlineHost: RELM Muse has entered the room. Triad3204: speculative society he proposed). But even he had his blindspots. T83BIRD: re's Muse RELM Muse: Well, *that* was exciting. Gandalara: re's mUse :) Araiused: Hi Muse ;) TAMirabile: Wb Muse E cat s: wb Muse :) RELM Muse: Unfortunately, when AOL froze, it lost the log. Gand, were you logging? TCoehoorn: 5.0 is cursed RELM Muse: Ellen, we'll need your submission address again. ;) EllenDat: The discussion of societal change in sf ficction is useful. RELM Muse: TC, I'm using 3.0! Gandalara: Yup. HeyPaulS: LOL RELM Muse: Thanks, Gand! EllenDat: 48 Eighth Avenue, PMB 405, NY NY 10014. RELM Muse: Great! OnlineHost: Phx8 has entered the room. RELM Muse: Hi Phx! EllenDat: Sorry, that was a bit garbled. Araiused: Hi Phx! RELM Muse: Welcome to the Other*Worlds*Cafe! RELM Muse: Ellen Datlow is our guest tonight talking Phx8: Hi! RELM Muse: about being Fiction Editor at scifi.com! HeyPaulS: What about writer's guidelines? Araiused: PMB? EllenDat: But I think that's one of the things that contemporary sf is doing very well. RowrBasil: Ellen..how long should a novel be? am looking at 700 pages and doubt T83BIRD: Hi Phx RowrBasil: any readers out there have the patience EllenDat: Bruce Sterling's Distraction is all about societal change. RowrBasil: or attention span EllenDat: PMB is Private Mail Box. It's instead of Suite. HeyPaulS: The better the book the better my attention span EllenDat: The po doesn't let you use suite any more. EllenDat: Guidelines will be on our site, once it's up. RELM Muse: You know, I loved the *ideas* in Distraction, but I didn't think the characters rang true. EllenDat: A novel should be as long as it needs to be. Phx8: Web site to check scifi.com guidelines? RowrBasil: Have to keep shaking off sense of contempt for the morons..I mean, the people. RELM Muse: LOL Rowr HeyPaulS: Ah, Rowr, let me guess. You'll be replacing Ellison? EllenDat: They aren't there yet Phx8--but when the fiction goes up so will the guidelines. ANd they .. EllenDat: should be going out to various market reports. Phx8: Thanks RowrBasil: Hey...I'm single, and a lot more bitter than he seems to be nowadays..Is the job open? HeyPaulS: LOL EllenDat: Muse, I didn't care that much for the characters either BUT Bruce does do interesting ... RELM Muse: LOL EllenDat: things with politics and society. Phx8: Ellen, 'someone' said you like dark fiction... whatever that is! What will you be loooking Phx8: for? EllenDat: Strong sf stories with interesting believable characters. RELM Muse: In his book before that, Holy Fire, I really identified with the old woman becoming young,.. OnlineHost: MaraJade7 has entered the room. EllenDat: I didnt' read that one. RELM Muse: because I made the opposite transition when I had my strokes. Araiused: Hi Mara Triad3204: Dark fiction is any story where the lights are turned out. Phx8: By strong, do you mean strong on the technology element? HeyPaulS: hi Mara RELM Muse: But again, I liked the ideas best. RELM Muse: Hi Mara! OnlineHost: DerHexer has entered the room. Phx8: lol Triad DerHexer: Hi all RELM Muse: Hi Der! HeyPaulS: hi Der Phx8: Hi Der! MaraJade7: Hi everyone! Hi Ellen! RELM Muse: Welcome! The new Fiction Editor for RELM Muse: scifi.com, Ellen Datlow, is here! DerHexer: Here I am, big as life and twice as ugly RowrBasil: I miss the Huxley-type novels of ideas Araiused: Hi Der DerHexer: Hello, Ellen EllenDat: No I mean powerful plotting. Good storytelling. RELM Muse: LOL Der RowrBasil: antic hay, point counterpoint, that stuff..BNW was good, too Phx8: Glad to hear that, Ellen TCoehoorn: rowr... how long is the illiad? OnlineHost: Kakaze has entered the room. RowrBasil: ten years? Araiused: Hey Kak T83BIRD: Hi Kak Kakaze: Hi all!!! HeyPaulS: hi Kkak DerHexer: There are some good plotters and story tellers out there in SF land MaraJade7: Hi kak! RELM Muse: Hi Kak! RELM Muse: Do you like the SciFi Channel? Their RELM Muse: online version, scifi.com, has hired our RELM Muse: guest, Ellen Datlow, as their Fiction Editor! T83BIRD: Also unique and memorable characters, Ellen? TAMirabile: Hi Kak Kakaze: Ara!!!! T!!! Ppaul!!! Mara!!! Muse!!! Tam!!! DerHexer: Hi Kak!!!!!!!!!!! Kakaze: Der!!! RELM Muse: Yes, I like LMB's Vorkosigan Saga, but it's not high lit. It's great fun to read! RowrBasil: one good thing the sci fi channel has done..have they finally killed off Sliders..I was so EllenDat: T Bird, what's your question? Gandalara: :::waving at Kak:::: RowrBasil: sickly and wan, it needed a mercy killing. Kakaze: Gand! Kakaze: !! RowrBasil: it was. Kakaze: I liked Sliders. RELM Muse: Rowr, they didn't exactly kill it off. You'd think there was another ep coming. Kakaze: I missed the old Quinn though. RELM Muse: A *big* cliffhanger. MaraJade7: I liked Sliders too . . . until it got ungood. Kakaze: Especially when he took off his shirt... T83BIRD: I meant that you probably also want to see unique and memorable characters in stories, Ellen DerHexer: Jack McDevitt tells good stories, and his characters are not cardboard cutouts EllenDat: Well, yes, that's what I said :> Triad3204: Well, there's my mistake. I've been sending out all these stories with boring, unmemorable RELM Muse: I like McDevitt, except for the one I don't -- Eternity Road. EllenDat: I haven't gotten many stories from McDevitt, although I'd like to. Triad3204: characters. Thinking that's what editors wanted! Triad3204: (I've got egg on my face now!) EllenDat: LOL. Triad3204: :) RELM Muse: LOL RowrBasil: have read mcdevitt in the bathtub..send the things off to friend. DerHexer: Vernor Vinge tells great stories, and his ideas can leave me thinking for days DerHexer: agfterwards Log Count: There were 15 member(s) in Other Worlds SF Chat at 11:30 PM Kakaze: Thank you for that disturbing image, Rowr. RowrBasil: always happy to oblige, Kak/ T83BIRD: LOL Rowr RELM Muse: Let me remind you about tomorrow's topic: RELM Muse: Are women writers finally in the promised RELM Muse: land? Have they passed their test of honor RELM Muse: and been accepted to the ingathering? RELM Muse: Is it just a wrinkle in time, or do they have RELM Muse: a sporting chance? Are they the voices of RELM Muse: chaos or the women of wonder? Join RELM RELM Muse: Astra in her civil campaign, with a RELM Muse: discussion of SF's Women Writers! RowrBasil: ellen, kak and I have a routine of insulting each other viciously..It's a hobby. EllenDat: I can tell Basil:>' RELM Muse: Speaking of women writers, Tor has a new Tiptree anthology coming out. RowrBasil: Some people collect stamps. Triad3204: Personally I think women authors have entered their vintage season. HeyPaulS: Should we expect you back tomorrow Ellen? LOL T83BIRD: It's a hobby horse they ride rather often, Ellen. RELM Muse: PNH says it's things that have only been in mags. RELM Muse: LOL We've had Ellen as our guest rather often, but I think it's too much to ask.. RELM Muse: to have her back every night. Gandalara: And Zettell has a new book out too. Yay! EllenDat: Nah. Afraid not. HeyPaulS: Just seemed topical. RELM Muse: Yeah, I saw your note about it, Gand. RowrBasil: I do hope this will be the last tiptree..I pretty much lost desire ever to read anything mor RowrBasil: by her TCoehoorn: critics be damned ,anything i can enjoy is worth my time T83BIRD: True, TC. Kakaze: Hear hear, TC! Gandalara: Agreem TC DerHexer: Ellen, are there any collections of McDevitt shorts??? RowrBasil: Standard Candles, Der.. EllenDat: Do you mean a Tiptree collection or a Tiptree award antho? RELM Muse: Tiptree collection, I should have said. Araiused: Wise words, TC RELM Muse: Rowr, you don't have to buy them. :) EllenDat: Oh I didn't know. Perhaps it's an omnibus collectoin. Kakaze: Critics usually have their heads up their arses anyway, TC. OnlineHost: MaraJade7 has left the room. RELM Muse: No, Patrick listed the stories on rasfw yesterday. RowrBasil: Was not planning a big splurge..if it turns up in thrift store, I might get it. DerHexer: I ususally don't read the critics RELM Muse: What's the next con you're going to, Ellen? Gandalara: Shoot, that was my next question, Muse :) RELM Muse: LOL EllenDat: I'm going to the Conf. of the Fantastic in Ft. lauderdale. I go to EllenDat: that every year. It's more an academic con but they have good guests. EllenDat: And then World HOrror in Denver in May (I'm editor GOH). RELM Muse: Yeah, you had me type for Clute's OMNI Internet interview while he was at that con. RELM Muse: Neat, Ellen! OnlineHost: PShawOCnl has entered the room. EllenDat: Right. RELM Muse: Hi PS! T83BIRD: Hi PS RELM Muse: Welcome! You've found the RELM Muse: Other*Worlds*Cafe and we're talking RELM Muse: to Ellen Datlow! DerHexer: Hi PS Araiused: Hi PS HeyPaulS: hi PS RELM Muse: PS, Ellen is the new Fiction Editor at scifi.com. :) Kakaze: Is OMNI ever going to come back, or is it officially dead? PShawOCnl: Hi, just dropped in while I was around.. RELM Muse: PS is one of our Spider Robinson fans. :) EllenDat: OMNI is dead dead dead. RowrBasil: Oh..what the heck is going on with Spider now anyway? EllenDat: As far as I know there is no money to bring it back. Gandalara: Hi PS! I'm a lurker on the Spider board :) Kakaze: I liked OMNI. PShawOCnl: A shame that...Loved the old mag. RowrBasil: Just please God, no more stardance sequels... DerHexer: I don't really miss OMNI, but I enjoyed the Dean Ing stories about the car engineer Kakaze: They were stupid to stop the magazine. T83BIRD: o/"Fifteen critics on the dead mag's chest...."/o Triad3204: What SF magazines do you read on a regular basis? (Ellen and everybody.) HeyPaulS: It may have been a good business decision. Gandalara: LOL T RowrBasil: Analog, SF Age.. T83BIRD: thx Gand Gandalara: Asimov's EllenDat: I skim F&SF and Asimov's and Interzone for YBFH. RELM Muse: LOL t8 T83BIRD: thx Muse HeyPaulS: I just signed up for all of the DNA magazines and ROF Triad3204: YBFH? EllenDat: I'm really only looking for horror but if I start reading a story I can't resist...I will. EllenDat: Yeasr's Best Fantasy and HOrror. RELM Muse: I read F&SF, Asimov's, and SFA (which Ellen just told us is dead). DerHexer: None, unless the cover shows it has an author I like EllenDat: Iread the horror. RELM Muse: And I should have another three years of Century coming -- has Rob said whether he's.. RELM Muse: honoring old subs? EllenDat: Oh right. And Century. yes he is. TCoehoorn: now that the scifi glut is over where do you think scifi is going? RowrBasil: I miss Galaxy.. RELM Muse: Also, I just got a sub to a UK mag, Spectrum. RELM Muse: Cool! Araiused: SFA is dead? Where did Eidelman go to? Triad3204: So do you get your short fiction through anthologies mostly, then? RowrBasil: Used to read F&SF, but when Harlan stopped reviewing movies, I lost a lot of interst.. RELM Muse: I was ready to stop subbing F&SF when Rusch was editor, but Gordon has been.. RELM Muse: much better. EllenDat: I never heard of Spectrum. RowrBasil: I think she said OMNI is dead. HeyPaulS: It's semipro Ellen RELM Muse: I'll send you the info on it, Ellen. It was in Analog. EllenDat: Triad. For YBFH yes. RowrBasil: Spectrum is that Bantam paperback anthlogy, right? RELM Muse: Rowr, she also said SFA is dead. RELM Muse: No, it's a new UK quarterly mag. RowrBasil: Oh. Darn. There goes my subscription money then. RELM Muse: Not Analog - Ansible! EllenDat: It's not the one edited by Kurt Roth? In looseleaf binders? If so, it's dead. RELM Muse: Nope, hasn't had it's first issue yet. ;) EllenDat: Scott is now working for a satellite-tv mag I've heard. EllenDat: Oh. Muse. Hmm. Gandalara: Hmph Muse, I Liked F&SF better when Rusch was at the helm :) Triad3204: I've really been enjoying F&SF lately. Of all the magazines I subscribe to, it's had the EllenDat: Do you know who the editor is? Triad3204: highest return of quality per issue. RELM Muse: I just mailed it to you, Ellen. Triad3204: But I didn't read it much while Rusch was at the helm. (I wasn't reading the mags at all.) T83BIRD: Asimov's has been rather gloomy of late, IMHO. EllenDat: thanks Muse. RELM Muse: I rather like Rusch's fiction, I just didn't like what she chose as editor. RELM Muse: I've liked SFA best, but if it's not going to be here, I dunno. But Century was.. RELM Muse: a great magazine for four issues, it'll probably continue. Triad3204: Asimov's has been rather poor, IMO. Although it did have "Dapple" by Arnason back in Sept. Triad3204: And that was a fantastic story. EllenDat: Century has a new issue out. They were showing it around at World Fantasy Con. RELM Muse: Now, I didn't like that one very much. What'd you like about it? EllenDat: And another is coming out soon. Triad3204: (And I haven't read the issues since November, so who knows.) RELM Muse: I'll have to write Rob. PShawOCnl: I tend to go for anthologies by one or multiple authors; don't have much time for mags Triad3204: "Dapple": It was my first exposure to Arnason's Hwarhath world, so I was impressed with what RELM Muse: Oh, I've read other stories in that. Triad3204: she'd done there. I also liked the plot and character development of the story as a whole -- EllenDat: Stories by one author are a collection. A book with stories by multiple authors is an... EllenDat: anthology. Triad3204: although I could be biased since I'm also an actor and study theatre history. Triad3204: What I liked was that she took a lot of common themes from theatre history and reinterpreted EllenDat: I took two stories from F&SF for YBFH. Gandalara: Oh I remember that one, Triad. Triad3204: them onto a completely alien world. RowrBasil: Ellen...hmm, which would make the Bible the 'First' Dangerous Visions.. RELM Muse: Ah, that could be. That set of stories is all about traveling actors. Log Count: There were 15 member(s) in Other Worlds SF Chat at 11:45 PM EllenDat: I quite liked The Executioner's Guild by Andy Duncan. it was a novella. OnlineHost: DerHexer has left the room. PShawOCnl: Thanks; just trying to be consise RELM Muse: I liked that one, too, Ellen. T83BIRD: bye Der RELM Muse: LOL Rowr! Triad3204: There was a prequel to it in the December F&SF ("The Actors'). RELM Muse: Right. EllenDat: And Terri took "The Chop Girl," by Ian Macleod--which is quite good...but I don't remember.. EllenDat: if it's from F&Sf or ASF. RELM Muse: Oh, I vaguely remember that. RELM Muse: We had an inquiry from an SF theatre group about setting up in the SF forum,.. RELM Muse: and I told them what we could offer them and we haven't heard back. T83BIRD: I remember that one. A bittersweet WWII tale. RELM Muse: So you never know, we may have some SF theatre here sometime. :) EllenDat: About a young woman considered a jinx. HeyPaulS: SF theater? That would be rough. RELM Muse: Oh! Yes, now I remember it. Gandalara: Paul - already have Seeing Ear theater,,,,, HeyPaulS: Low on special effects I image HeyPaulS: imagine PShawOCnl: Came across a relatively new one yesterday.. Triad3204: PaulS: Possibly. But realize that large portions of Shakespeare's corpus is fantasy. RELM Muse: Yeah, although I'm not sure they want to *perform* here, just discuss. EllenDat: I'm afraid I've got to get going. OnlineHost: JAZ0989 has entered the room. Triad3204: And all the Greek playwrights have mythological elements. And there's Faust. HeyPaulS: Bye Ellen T83BIRD: Thanks for the chat, Ellen EllenDat: thanks very much for having me here. RELM Muse: Ellen, thanks for staying so long! RELM Muse: We really appreciate your being here! EllenDat: RowrBasil: thank you for visiting.. Phx8: Thanks! Nite all! JAZ0989: hello EllenDat: You're welcome. Gandalara: ::::Applause:::: See ya at ChiCon, Ellen :) TAMirabile: Thanks, Ellen Araiused: Thank you, Ellen! RELM Muse: We'll put the submissions address in the file description. EllenDat: Yup. E cat s: Thanks for the chat, Ellen EllenDat: Good. RELM Muse: Hi JAZ! OnlineHost: EllenDat has left the room. PShawOCnl: Cheerio! RELM Muse: Welcome to the Other*Worlds*Cafe! OnlineHost: Phx8 has left the room. RELM Muse: Ellen Datlow is our guest tonight talking T83BIRD: Nite Phx RELM Muse: about being Fiction Editor at scifi.com! TAMirabile: ChiCon? perk HeyPaulS: WAS our guest RELM Muse: Oops, well, she isn't here anymore. :) T83BIRD: Hi JAZ HeyPaulS: hi Jaz RELM Muse: We always tell them they only have to stay the first hour, so when they stay.. RowrBasil: 'Just shred every fifth manuscript on arrival..more efficient.' E cat s: Hi Jaz RELM Muse: longer, they're usually having fun. ;) RELM Muse: LOL Rowr Gandalara: LOL Rowr HeyPaulS: That's good T83BIRD: She was good to us. JAZ0989: finally you notice me Araiused: Hi JAZ RELM Muse: Ellen has been a great friend to us, and I'm glad she got a great job. RowrBasil: odds are, it would save time and most submissions would be lousy. RELM Muse: JAZ, we were saying goodbye to our special guest tonight. HeyPaulS: Always the optimist Rowr RELM Muse: Yeah, I wouldn't want to be the slush reader. HeyPaulS: I've got stuff to do. Bye all. RowrBasil: Hey,,merely the certainty of bad writing. T83BIRD: Nite Paul RELM Muse: Night, Paul! Araiused: Nite, paul! E cat s: Bye Hey Gandalara: Night Paul OnlineHost: HeyPaulS has left the room. PShawOCnl: Pax RELM Muse: Night, PS! TAMirabile: Vale PS T83BIRD: Nite PS Araiused: Nite, PS RELM Muse: And let me remind you: Gandalara: Night PS :) RowrBasil: If they submit an adam and eve story, shred manuscript AND author. RELM Muse: Yes, it's time to order O*W*C T-shirts! RELM Muse: You'll find all the information at RELM Muse: http://www.webmoose.com/owc/misc-shirts.html RELM Muse: If you don't have my home address, you RELM Muse: haven't ordered yet! PShawOCnl: No, just saying bye to Paul RELM Muse: Ah, sorry, thought you were going. That's the kind of terse exit line we.. RELM Muse: usually get from Rowr. :) Gandalara: Ah, pshaw. Made a mistake :/ T83BIRD: Apologies, PS. PShawOCnl: NP! Gandalara: And a very bad pun :) RELM Muse: LOL RowrBasil: Best exit line was the Civil War General- RowrBasil: 'They couldn't hit the broadside of a barn at this ra-" RELM Muse: LOLOL TAMirabile: LOL Gandalara: Oy PShawOCnl: You can call me Phil if you like, and yes it's deliberate and descriptive! PShawOCnl: Gevalt! RELM Muse: LOL Kakaze: o Kakaze: I'm audi. Kakaze: Night all. Kakaze: Slan slan! RELM Muse: tendrils, Kak! OnlineHost: Kakaze has left the room. Gandalara: Chevy, Kak :) RELM Muse: LOL T83BIRD: You're the ruler of Heck? (From Dilbert.) T83BIRD: Nite Kak RELM Muse: I dunno, but apparently I'm going to have Hell to pay. Not a big deal,.. RowrBasil: Love My Tendrils, Love my snakes, never let me go... RELM Muse: since I don't believe in Hell.;) RELM Muse: LOL Rowr! RowrBasil: Jommy Cross does Elvis.. T83BIRD: o/"Love me tendril, love me true..."?o RowrBasil: T83..better..good OnlineHost: TCoehoorn has left the room. OnlineHost: JAZ0989 has left the room. RELM Muse: Well, we're hemorrhaging guests! T83BIRD: thx Rowr Nite TC Nite JAZ RELM Muse: Anybody read anything good lately? Gandalara: I just finished AFTERMATH. Now I have to go get the sequel :) RELM Muse: Who's that by? T83BIRD: Been doing more writing than reading lately, Muse. RowrBasil: I just got copy of the six volume edition of Memoirs of Casanova, Machen translation.. RELM Muse: Ah, good for you, T8! RELM Muse: Ewww, Rowr Gandalara: Sheffield. He's destroys things in a wonderful way :) RELM Muse: Ah! I probably have that, just don't remember. Gandalara: It's GOOD RowrBasil: And began reading Kerouac, on the road..with a blue pencil to edit his mistakes RELM Muse: Cool! TAMirabile: I still have that class tomorrow. It's killing me. RELM Muse: LOL Rowr TAMirabile: Good Night. Thanks, Muse. Great interview PShawOCnl: Picked up one that looks promising yesterday... RELM Muse: Night, TAM! T83BIRD: Nite TAM PShawOCnl: Har! Araiused: Nite, TAM! Gandalara: Night TAM :) RowrBasil: Need more pencils. PShawOCnl: night TAMirabile: BBoom Gand OnlineHost: TAMirabile has left the room. Araiused: Baboom, TAM :) Gandalara: Ook Ook E cat s: Night Tam RELM Muse: Ba Ba Ba Ba Boom? RowrBasil: though actually I begin to see what readers like in Jack Kerouac. Araiused: LOL RELM Muse: What, Rowr? RowrBasil: a bit too sloppy for me, but he is damnably eager.. RELM Muse: Oh, hmm... PShawOCnl: MY FAVORITE SF STORY, ed. by Martin Greenberg RELM Muse: Is it good, PS? RowrBasil: Though if you are going somewhere, you really ought to plan it more efficiently.. Gandalara: Greenburg edited a book I've been looking for, fo a long time. SF CHRISTMAS STORIES, or Gandalara: something like that T83BIRD: Staying, Muse, but thanks for the *savoir faire* chat with a guest and the rest. PShawOCnl: Just got it yesterday, haven't cracked it yet RELM Muse: LOL RELM Muse: Gand, Hartwell did two Christmas SF anthos. RELM Muse: Well, a last reminder of tomorrow's topic: RELM Muse: Are women writers finally in the promised RELM Muse: land? Have they passed their test of honor RELM Muse: and been accepted to the ingathering? RELM Muse: Is it just a wrinkle in time, or do they have RELM Muse: a sporting chance? Are they the voices of RELM Muse: chaos or the women of wonder? Join RELM RELM Muse: Astra in her civil campaign, with a RELM Muse: discussion of SF's Women Writers! RowrBasil: Muse..part of this is an immersion into late 20th century counterculture as research in RowrBasil: novel RELM Muse: Y'all were good chatters tonight, but my time is up! RowrBasil: also reading Hesse again. T83BIRD: Nite Muse and all leavers. PShawOCnl: whoa! E cat s: Thank you, Muse!! Araiused: Thank you, Muse! RELM Muse: Feel free to stay and chat! If you have any problems, use keyword: NOTIFY AOL. RELM Muse: Gand, send me the log. :) PShawOCnl: Thke care! RELM Muse: Have a good night! RELM Muse: See y'all tomorrow! Gandalara: Shortest SF story, in an Asimov book. Title "The sign at the end of the universe." The text, Gandalara: written upside down said, "This end up." OnlineHost: Triad3204 has left the room. OnlineHost: RELM Muse has left the room. E cat s: Night all. Clear skies. :) Gandalara: Thanks Muse! Gandalara: Night all! Log Count: There were 6 member(s) in Other Worlds SF Chat at 12:00 AM Araiused: LOL, Gand OnlineHost: E cat s has left the room.