The Other*Worlds*Cafe thanks OMNI Magazine Online for the use of the OMNI SF/Fantasy chatroom. The O*W*C is not affiliated in any way with OMNI Magazine or OMNI Online. Patterner Ooh, early people! WMMnSKI Hi Patt Patterner Hi WMMnSki! Klaus73024 What's a protocol chat? JaniceMars Patt! Hi! Welcome to the O*W*C. Our special guest ... JaniceMars tonight is Pat Cadigan, SF writer! Come on in, ... JaniceMars grab a lawn chair and get comfy! Patterner Hi Pat! Patterner Hi Klaus! Hi Jan! WMMnSKI One where you have to use protocol Cadigan Hi Patt. Yes, we are all fashionably early. Klaus73024 hi Patterner Actually, I'm not sure we have to use protocol, at least not yet. Patterner Our special guest tonight is Pat Cadigan, who has published the novels.... Patterner FOOLS and SYNNERS as well as the collection DIRTY WORKS. JaniceMars :::dropping down of the greeting step and jumping into my mylar lawn lounge:::: Patterner Pat wrote two of OMNI's Future Visions novellas, and is writing a book... Patterner based on those. *And* she's going to be Visiting Scholar for ... Patterner the new Cybernetic Culture Research Unit at Warwick University in Coventry. Patterner (I think I spelled every word in that line wrong at first.) Patterner Hi Toones! Patterner Hi Ktz! Patterner Welcome to the Other*Worlds*Cafe chat with cyberpunk author Pat Cadigan! Toones Hi WMMnSKI Hi KtzKradle KtzKradle Hi Cadigan Patterner> Actually, you didn't. You got all of that correct. WMMnSKI Hi Toones JaniceMars Ktz! LTNS. Patterner So, Pat, I thought the novellas were really interesting, particularly for the setting. KtzKradle Hi Jan, been in nite school Patterner Can you tell us a bit about the book they're going into? Cadigan Thanks, Patt. I decided that I wanted to write about something I didn't know a lot about... Cadigan To give me an excuse to exercise my curiosity about Japan and Japanese culture... Cadigan And also of course to write about VR, and AI, and all ofthat. Patterner When can we expect to see the book? And do you have a title? Cadigan Well, I hope to finish it up this summer... Cadigan I don't have a title for it yet--I've been calling it the Future Japan novel, although... Cadigan that's not quite accurate, really... Cadigan In that in the novel, Japan the physical country doesn't really exist any more. Cadigan ga Patterner I'm looking forward to reading it! Patterner Folks, we're going to try to manage without protocol tonight. Cadigan Thanks. So am I. Patterner Ask your questions, but please let Pat finish one before you give her another. Patterner Anyone with the first question? Cadigan I deliberately set myself up some puzzles to solve. WMMnSKI If the physical country doesn' WMMnSKI exist, what's the setting like. Cadigan That's a bit hard to explain... Cadigan In that I'm dealing with people for whom the real world--the outside world-- Cadigan has little to no importance... Cadigan They spend just about all of their time either getting ready to be in VR... Cadigan in VR... Cadigan Or recovering from the VR hangover. Patterner LOL! JaniceMars :::hmmmm:::: Toones Pat, what kind of work did you do with tech: AI, VR, before Synners? Did you work with it .. WMMnSKI So is that kind of cyberpunk? Cadigan Toones, I have little experience with AI, VR, or anything else... Toones (sorry) or just research the hell out of it. Cadigan That's okay.-- Cadigan I've had some experience with VR... Patterner (don't worry, if we confuse her, we'll start a queue :) ) Cadigan I got to try the headmounted helmet and do some skiing...... Cadigan (It takes a lot more than this to confuse me)... Cadigan Interesting, because it's probably the only kind of skiing I'll ever do... Patterner Hi Stng! Welcome to the Other*Worlds*Cafe chat with cyberpunk author Pat Cadigan! Toones Have you experienced the VR sickness? Cadigan And I've done a little walking around a virtual house and sticking my hand through walls... Cadigan things like that... Cadigan No, I don't think I spent enough time in VR to get sick... Cadigan Although I can see how it could happen... Cadigan And it's not hte sort of thing I'd do with a sinus headache... Cadigan WMMnSKI--yes, I supposeit is sort of cyberpunk... Cadigan In that it deals with themes and elements that have come to be identified as... Cadigan cyberpunk...and people who like that kind of reading material will probably be... Cadigan intrigued enough at least to pick up the book and read the blurb on the back..... Patterner Your VR setting is very detailed, life-like, yet iconic. Kind of a mix of a GUI and a movie. WMMnSKI Thanks. Patterner How did you develop that? It's *very* realistic. Cadigan Patt> My active fantasy life. Patterner LOLOL Cadigan I'm serious, actually...... Cadigan I spent most of my life straddling two worlds--well, at least two... Patterner Stng, we're not using protocol tonight. Go ahead and ask questions, just give Pat a chance to.... Patterner finish the previous one first. Stngnslm ok will do Cadigan And frankly, I don't know that many kids who don't. At least the kids I know. And knew. Cadigan When I was a kid... Cadigan We did a lot of what people now refer to as "gaming" WMMnSKI (Sneaking out, someone has to make a call) Cadigan Except with us, it was all extemporaneous, impromptu pretend stuff... Cadigan Except for us, it was very vivid... Cadigan And I used to like to keep the story going in my head after the streetlights went on... Cadigan and I had to go home. Patterner Hi David! Welcome to the Other*Worlds*Cafe chat with cyberpunk author Pat Cadigan! Patterner We're not using protocol, so feel free to just ask questions. Please make sure Pat... Patterner is finished with the previous one first, though. :) Stngnslm before the daysof tv you had to use your imagination David PL Hi Patt Patterner Do you think the "scripted" fantasy play, like the LARPs, takes away from the.. Cadigan Stng> Well, I'm older, but I don't predate TV, actually. Patterner players' creativity? Cadigan Patt> Not really... Stngnslm sorry ican rmember when they wee new Patterner Hi WvLiQUiDvw! Welcome to the Other*Worlds*Cafe chat with cyberpunk author Pat Cadigan! WvLiQUiDvw anyone know the keyword for OMNI BBS SYSTEM Patterner Wv, this is a science fiction discussion group. ;) Cadigan Patt> I think the creative people will adapt as they feel like it... Cadigan Patt> And Ithink it can serve as helpful to other people who need more of a jump start. Cadigan Stng> There was certainly *less* on TV, and less to choose from, when I was a kid... Cadigan It certainly wasn't as all-pervasive even in the early 60s as it is now. Patterner What is the Cybernetic Culture Research Unit, and what will you be doing as Visiting Scholar? Stngnslm allot of the difference wasthe special effects, you had to relly use your imagination to Stngnslm beleive what you were watching Cadigan Stng> Amen. Patt> the CCRU, as we call it... Stngnslm today it is more so realistic Patterner Hi Shadow! Welcome to the Other*Worlds*Cafe chat with cyberpunk author Pat Cadigan! Cadigan Is attached to the Philosophy Department... Shadowjakk Hi Patterner! Hi Pat! Patterner We're not using protocol; just let Pat finish the current question before asking another. :) Cadigan Though it actually crosses several disciplines... Cadigan Sadie Plant is the head of it... Cadigan She's the author of a book called The Most Radical Gesture, which is about the Situationist Cadigan Movement... Cadigan I first met her at the Institute for Contemporary Arts in London two years ago... Cadigan When I was invited to speak at a conference on Virtual Reality... Cadigan Sorry, my kid just came in here wanting something... Patterner That's their purpose in life, I think. :) Cadigan Anyway, I didn't realize it in the beginning, but... Cadigan I had been dealing with a lot of postmodern themes and elements in my work... Cadigan Sadie and others contacted me... Cadigan And we discovered we had a lot to talk about... Cadigan We're all concerned with the near future... Cadigan The effect of technology on people and various cultures... Cadigan Things like that. JaniceMars With VR goggles and mittens and suits do you think we're going to bypass the ... Cadigan My new ambition is to go to Paris and meet Jean Baudrillard. Patterner LOL! JaniceMars surgical options for cyberspace? Cadigan Well, I think that all depends... Cadigan When you talk about the biological and the medical... Cadigan You enter an area where it seems like anything can happen--miracle cures, monster diseases.. Cadigan Surgical breakthroughs... Cadigan And it depends, actually, on how open our society is to surgical modifications by the time.. Cadigan that becomes possible... Cadigan Culture tends to dictate that sort of thing more than we know... Cadigan While the search for cures and vaccines for various things goes on and on... Cadigan Elective surgery is something else again... Cadigan And after surgical options become commonplace, they may occupy... Cadigan the same kind of status that cosmetic surgery does right now... Cadigan Wonderful if you can afford it... Cadigan Not necessary if you can't... Cadigan But none of the doctors who specialize in it will ever go hungry. Cadigan ga. JaniceMars Thanks! Toones Don't you think the biggest hurdle is the conversion of brain activity to digital and visa Toones versa? Cadigan Well, that may be the biggest technical hurdle... Cadigan But we also may find ourselves dealing with a segment of society that feels towards... Cadigan that sort of conversion the same way some people feel towards abortion on demand. Cadigan E.G., I was raised in a Catholic household... Patterner Hi Mike! Welcome to the Other*Worlds*Cafe chat with cyberpunk author Pat Cadigan! Cadigan Where, among other things, extraordinary means to keep terminal patients alive is generally. Cadigan frowned on... Patterner Hi Weyden! Welcome to the Other*Worlds*Cafe chat with cyberpunk author Pat Cadigan! Cadigan and in vitro fertilization is a no-no. It could be that... Weyden Hi :) Patterner We're not using protocol tonight; just let Pat finish the current question before you ask yours. :) Cadigan Churches, or even certain kinds of secular organizations... Cadigan will find this sortof thing unacceptable. Patterner Hi ERose! Welcome to the Other*Worlds*Cafe chat with cyberpunk author Pat Cadigan! Cadigan I think about this sort of thing... Cadigan Simply because I have some friends who are Jehovah's Witnesses... Patterner There are people now who think cosmetic surgery is "wrong," even if they can afford it. Cadigan The Witnesses, of course, do not permit blood transfusions under any circumstances... ERose 15 Why would cosmic surgery be wrong Cadigan Nor do they celebrate any holidays. Cadigan ERose> Cosmic surgery--would that it were that good!! Stngnslm think some of the socio paths could use VR to vent their urges Patterner LOL! Really! Cadigan Erose> My Jewish friends can't get tattoos--another religio-cultural no-no. Toones It will be interesting to see a religious take on VR types of existence. Cadigan ERose> It's not a long walk from there to cosmetic surgery. Shadowjakk The Church may someday embrace VR. Patterner Pay to see god? Cadigan Toones> Yes, I find it interesting to think about that sort of thing in direct conjunction.. Cadigan with the highly technical... Shadowjakk Wouldn't most Catholics love to attend a Virtual Mass at St Peters? :) Stngnslm you could have a high mass at home Patterner Relive the life of a saint! Cadigan Well, when you remember that certain Orthodox sects do not permit... ERose 15 I think religion on line takes away from the spiritual experience Cadigan pictures or statues of saints or deities, unless they are in the icon form... Patterner Hi Techyo! Welcome to the Other*Worlds*Cafe chat with cyberpunk author Pat Cadigan! Patterner We're not using protocol right now; just let Pat finish the current question before asking another. :) Cadigan One might imagine how that could be adopted for the 21st--or 22nd--or 23rd century. Shadowjakk I don't know that St Joan "moddies" would be big sellers, Patt. :) Patterner Oh, Shadow, think of all the purgatory points you could get! Shadowjakk Better Virtual martyrdom, I suppose. :) Patterner Hi Seraph! Welcome to the Other*Worlds*Cafe chat with cyberpunk author Pat Cadigan! Seraph23 Heya Janice, Patt, all ;) Patterner We're not using protocol right now; just be sure Pat is finished with the current... Patterner question before you ask another. :) Seraph23 Good golly is that *tonight*? Cadigan Seraph? I start talking about religion, and a Seraph shows up. I'd better watch it. Patterner LOL! Seraph23 LOL Cadigan ;) Shadowjakk LOL Seraph23 Yeah, I'm funny like that. Patterner Back to more general VR, do you think it will ever be used as punishment? Seraph23 Hi tech Patterner Hi again, Tech! Cadigan Patt> Good question... Techyo Hi All again. :) Cadigan Patt> That may depend on what your idea of punishment is. Seraph23 I can think of a couple... Patterner LOL! There is a program right now that uses VR to "cure" acrophobia. Cadigan To me, punishment would be more along the lines of deprivation of sense stimulation... Patterner I'd think it would be easy enough to turn it around. Seraph23 Patt, took it right outa my mouth. ;) Cadigan Yeah, but it seems to me that it might be more punishing to deny someone access to VR... Cadigan rather than to put them into something... Seraph23 ya mean switch off the VR junkies? Patterner To have to live in the "real world"? Cadigan Unless you're talkign about deliberately tormenting someone with arachnophobia... Cadigan with enormous virtual spiders, and like cases... Cadigan But that isn't discipline--that is torture. Cadigan And that is another issue entirely. Patterner Well, yes, I know people who would be scared with that. Patterner So what about torture? Seraph23 Ok, have them exposed to VR images of their victims. Seraph23 Hiya Est Patterner Hi Estreya! Welcome to the Other*Worlds*Cafe chat with cyberpunk author Pat Cadigan! Shadowjakk Right...most instances in fiction point to torture, rather than punishment, I think. Seraph23 Have them exposed to VR work settings, have them go through VR rehab. Patterner We're not using protocol right now; just let Pat finish the current question before asking another. ;) Cadigan Seraph>That might have mixed results... Estreya Hiya Ser. ;) Hi all! Cadigan Ted Bundy, for example, would probably have called that heaven, not torture. Seraph23 Hmm right, might not have worked with John wayne Gacy. Cadigan Or Jeffrey Dahmer. Stngnslm latter all Seraph23 Would work with drunk driving offenders. Techyo Depends in their case you might have to show them their victums pre-them. Seraph23 Most aren't truly cognizant of the severity..during the crime. Cadigan The problem with people like Bundy, or Gacy, or Dahmer, is that they are all sociopaths... Cadigan They already live in a virtual world, in that no one else has any reality for them... Cadigan Everyone is an object. Patterner Some folks look at VR as the new teacher. Do you think that's practical? Seraph23 Lotsa folks on AOL feel the same way Cadigan. ;) Cadigan Patt> Well, as soon as the price comes down and you can get the equipment as cheaply... Cadigan as computers.... Shadowjakk I think VR might actually encourage sociopaths...and solipsists, in that respect. Patterner LOL! No more teachers? No more schools? Cadigan VR can probably be education heaven... Cadigan Shadowjakk> Actually, I don't think sociopaths really require encouragement. They're... Seraph23 Kinda hard to get shot in a class room shoot out in VR. It would have its benefits. Cadigan already there. Seraph23 Hiya Dan Patterner Hi Dan! Welcome to the Other*Worlds*Cafe chat with cyberpunk author Pat Cadigan! Danmttsb Hello All! Cadigan Seraph> It would be difficult, but not impossible. Cadigan Seraph> Or it might happen on a virtual level... Patterner No, as noted in your first novella in Future Visions. :) Seraph23 It might, could be a class on the History of the wild West.... Seraph23 or some hackers inaved and hold hostage a VR School. Seraph23 That'd be neat. Cadigan And the kid in question gets unplugged and sent to the principle's office. Patterner Hi Maroscher! Welcome to the Other*Worlds*Cafe chat with cyberpunk author Pat Cadigan! Patterner Hi again, Dan! Cadigan And for detention, you have to stay after school and watch TV. Patterner We're not using protocol right now; just let Pat finish the current qustion before you ask another. ;) Danmttsb Back...Thank my lucky ****** Seraph23 LOL..or read a book. Shadowjakk LOL Patterner Hi DBenson! Welcome to the Other*Worlds*Cafe chat with cyberpunk author Pat Cadigan! Seraph23 Pat? So what makes you a punk? And a Cyber punk at that? Patterner The title of the Virtual Futures conference that you're heading off to is... Patterner datableed. Do you know the etiology of that name? Seraph23 Listen to God Save the queen too many times? Cadigan Seraph> No, I have to keep up with my ten year old son. He wants a clip on nose ring. Cadigan Patt> Actually, it has to do with our current information hemorrhage... Cadigan (How's that for imagery? Yuck!)... Patterner (at least it's a clip-on...) Toones Make him get a real one. Seraph23 Yeah, at least. Cadigan In that we are all shedding tons of information about ourselves all the time... Cadigan Particularly now, when we have sacrificed so much privacy for convenience... Cadigan I spoke at the 1996 conference on Computers, Freedom and Privacy in March... Cadigan With Vernor Vinge, Tom Maddox, and Bruce Sterling, among many others... Seraph23 Privacy eh? hmm Shadowjakk Well...Congress recently attempted to help by passing the Tourniquet Bill. Cadigan And in fact, if you have REalAudio, you can get to the CFP96 website and hear our speeches.. Cadigan Along with all the other panel discussions and speeches... Danmttsb Pat..you're right on re: privacy...we marketers want to know "everything/as do the feds" Cadigan Oh, Dan, then I recommend you listen to my speech. Cadigan It's about marketing and monitoring by the feds. Patterner If you ever post in the newsgroups, you should go to Dejanews... Patterner and see all the information you're giving to the 'net. Seraph23 Pat, so? What's the big deal about privacy? Danmttsb The "anti*****task force on ****has a "place" for everyone...OK, I'll try to find it! Seraph23 Its not like its anything more than a recent social fiction. Cadigan Seraph> Well, that depends on how you see it... Cadigan For insteance.... Cadigan At this CFP96 conference... Cadigan There was a guy named Bill Nelson, from the White House... Seraph23 Uh huh Cadigan who was insisting that without the clipper chip, there would be... Cadigan many more tragedies like the World Trade Center bombing and the Oklahoma City bombing... Cadigan I pointed out in my speech... Cadigan That the feds could have monitored all the phone calls and bulletin boards and violated... Cadigan everyone's email privacy for months... Cadigan And they never would have seen the OKC bombing coming... Patterner Hi UnB! Welcome to the Other*Worlds*Cafe chat with cyberpunk author Pat Cadigan! Cadigan Because people like that are not online sending email... Cadigan Not two weeks later... UnBroken99 Hi Cadigan They arrested the Unabomber... Cadigan Living in his shack in the wilds, without indoor plumbing, no computers... Seraph23 But, Pat... don't ya think that the "right to privacy" is really only a Seraph23 fiction developed within the suburban generation? Do ya think we had Seraph23 any privacy whatsoever when we lived in primarily agrarian settings? Danmttsb Right, and that is a serious proposition..."Who will watch the watchers",,,as Plato said.... Cadigan And he still would not have been caught unless his brother had turned him in. Patterner Now folks, let her finish her thoughts. :) Cadigan Seraph> Well, I don't know about you... Danmttsb They tried "not" to arrest Unabomber..his brother had to insist...:) Cadigan But when I am whispering sweet nothings to my boyfriend on the telephone... Cadigan Cadigan It is not okay with me that the gov't is listening just because they are afraid there's a... Cadigan bomber out there. Seraph23 well... that's new... try sneaking out of the village hut.... Seraph23 Everyone knew. Patterner You seem to be doing more speaking on non-fiction today, has your writing... Cadigan Yes, but not everyone was standing around listening. Patterner taken a back seat? Cadigan Patt> Not really... Seraph23 They weren't? (no reply needed) Cadigan I'm always invited to speak on these things because of what I have written about... Cadigan (Seraph> Not *everyone*. Some of the others had dates themselves.) Cadigan And I continue to write about these issues in fictional settings... Seraph23 LMAO, ooo good one Patterner Hi Chip! Welcome to the Other*Worlds*Cafe chat with cyberpunk author Pat Cadigan! Danmttsb Wisdom comes from those who consider....the motives of the "knowledge seekers" Patterner We're not using protocol right now; just let Pat finish her current question before you ask another. : Cadigan Dan> Well, one of my points... Cadigan was the fact that I don't want someone gathering information... Cadigan and claiming that it's knowledge. Patterner Hi Starlyt! Welcome to the Other*Worlds*Cafe chat with cyberpunk author Pat Cadigan! Cadigan Knowledge is power. Information is just information. Techyo <- glad that folks with you insight are speaking out, Pat! Seraph23 Pat? Don't ya think they'll be hoist by their own petard? Suffer a case Seraph23 of information overload? Cadigan Well, thanks. The folks at the EFF are doing even more. Cadigan Seraph> Ask Dan the Marketing Man.... Cadigan You can narrow down the segment of the population you want to monitor by checking on... Patterner Hi BHubb! Welcome to the Other*Worlds*Cafe chat with cyberpunk author Pat Cadigan! Seraph23 LOL Alrighty.... but dan's here a lot... while you're on the hot seat now. Cadigan their habits. Right, Dan? Cadigan Oh, yeah, but I used to work at Hallmark Cards--I was in the creative division, but... Patterner We're not using protocol right now; just let Pat finish her current question before you ask another. : Cadigan I learned a heck of a lot about marketing while I was there. Danmttsb inclinations/and propensity to purchase :) Techyo So it's a matter of control? Cadigan In fact, the greeting card industry must profile consumers almost more than any other biz. Cadigan Techyo> All governments want you to believe that they are trying to hold back chaos... Cadigan And keep the unruly and antisocial elements under control... Seraph23 Male/masochist/egocomplex ---> Card with photo of self, a sympathy card. Seraph23 That kinda thing? Seraph23 ehehehe Cadigan Seraph> Well, unless the business has changed a lot...no. Patterner You were one of the first "cyberpunk" authors. How did you come to write cyberpunk? Cadigan Patt> Just a fortuitous choice on my part, really... Patterner Hi User778144! Welcome to the Other*Worlds*Cafe chat with cyberpunk author Pat Cadigan! Cadigan When I started writing, there was no such thing as cyberpunk.... Cadigan I just wrote about things that interested me. Cadigan All of us who were identified as cyberpunks were doing just that... UnBroken99 brb Starlyt gotta go. bye Seraph23 Yeah was all "steam delinquent", no cyber punk in them days.. bye Star Patterner Did the culture grow up after? Or was it simultaneous generation? User778144 Anybody an Issac Asimov fan ?? Patterner User, we have Pat Cadigan with us tonight, so we're talking about her work. :) Shadowjakk Pat...do you feel the CP designation is limiting in regards to audience? Patterner Hi I Lucida! Welcome to the Other*Worlds*Cafe chat with cyberpunk author Pat Cadigan! Cadigan Patt> I thought of it as simultaneous generation. Patterner We're not using protocol right now; just let Pat finish the current question before asking another. :) I Lucida hello where the hell am I Cadigan Luci> You're right here. Patterner You're in the OMNI SF/Fantasy room during an Other*Worlds*Cafe meeting. Patterner We have author Pat Cadigan as our guest tonight. :) Cadigan Shadowj> Limiting in some ways... Seraph23 Buckaroo Bonzai, no matter whereya go... I Lucida where and with who am i talking to, pat? Danmttsb New Term Patt,? Simultaneous Geration....? Same as flowers blooming? Seraph23 oh nevermind. Cadigan On the other hand, so many people have been insisting that cyberpunk is dead... Cadigan That I no longer have to worry about what I'm writing. Seraph23 U go Girl! Techyo Sure it is just like rock-n-roll. :) Patterner LOL! Shadowjakk LOLOL Cadigan Tech>You've got a point. Danmttsb Have to go! Thanks Pat,,,Well said and represented. See Y'all later ! Patterner See ya, Dan! Cadigan Bye, Dan Seraph23 later Dan Shadowjakk Some writers seem to cling to the sub-genre like a badge Shadowjakk of rebel-honor. Do you think CP s become integrated into Shadowjakk the broader genre? Patterner You told us recently that your life had changed a lot in the last few years... Patterner Is there anything there that affects your writing? Seraph23 Like Mary Shelley......she couldn't shake that Big Scary guy thing. Shadowjakk LOL Patterner (sorry, I'm having screenfreeze here.) Cadigan Patt> It's been happening from time to time to me, too. Screen freeze, I mean. Cadigan Well, plenty has happened to me... Seraph23 Is this where the guys in the room offer their cyber cloaks to warm ya up? Seraph23 Is that the chivalrous thing to do? Estreya LOL! Patterner LOL! No, Ser, it's right warm here in the house. Cadigan Seraph> It wasn't going to be that pitiful. Seraph23 Oh Alrighty then.... never say I didn't offer. ;) Patterner Hi Frank! LTNS! Patterner Welcome to the Other*Worlds*Cafe chat with cyberpunk author Pat Cadigan! RowrBasil oh my.. Patterner Hi Rowr! Welcome to the Other*Worlds*Cafe chat with cyberpunk author Pat Cadigan! Cadigan Patt> Anyway, in the last few years my focus has changed quite a bit... BCS Frank PAt & Pat 'n y'all, Hiya! :) Cadigan I'm doing a lot more nonfiction than I used to... Patterner We're not using protocol right now; just let Pat finish the current question before you ask another. Cadigan And I'm doing a lot more speaking engagements... Cadigan And I can't wait to see what Sadie Plant and I can cook up with the Cybernetic Culture... Cadigan Resaerch Unit at Warwick... Cadigan She has a lot of really bright students... Cadigan And the Philosophy Dept at Warwick is full of brilliant minds... Cadigan And England is my true home. Seraph23 Pat, well... I just gotta ask.... what do you think of Robert Heinlein? Seraph23 Fascist or Genius? Cadigan I knew it the first time I went there. Cadigan Seraph> Robert Heinlein was a personal friend of mine from 1976 to the time of his death... BCS Frank :) Cadigan He was a brilliant man who lived without compromising his beliefs... Seraph23 Farnk :) wouldn't let the opportunity slip by.. ;) Cadigan He didn't suffer fools gladly... David PL or? RowrBasil (No law says you couldn't be both,Seraph- ) Cadigan And he was the last of the old-time gentlemen... Cadigan He encouraged me in my work... Cadigan And always dropped me a note or called me on the phone when I had a new story out... Cadigan I named my son after him... Patterner Hi PAINTER! Welcome to the Other*Worlds*Cafe chat with cyberpunk author Pat Cadigan! Seraph23 Pat, thank you for sharing that, he's always a hot topic in here. Cadigan I met him when I was on the committee for the 1976 world science fiction convention... Cadigan and he taught me a lot about how to co-exist with people whose perspectives and beliefs... Cadigan were radically different from my own... Cadigan Robert Heinlein is a hot topic in a lotof places... Cadigan I loved him dearly, actually... Seraph23 :) Pat Cadigan and one of the things I tried hard to emulate in my own writing... BCS Frank Pat, I found Heinlein proposing so many things in his works that I found it hard to tell what some of Cadigan was that compulsive readability. BCS Frank his actual opinions where, as oposed to the opinions of his characters, settings, etc. Cadigan Frank> Well, it can be dangerous to decide that a writer is a certain kind of person just... Cadigan from reading the work, or to ascribe various beliefs, etc. just from his fiction... Patterner Hi APEHAUS! Welcome to the Other*Worlds*Cafe chat with cyberpunk author Pat Cadigan! Cadigan So it's always best to take a lot of that with a grain or two of salt... Seraph23 Ehehe, you're begging the question Pat... What kind of person would Seraph23 a reader of your books make you out to be? and how's that different Seraph23 from the real you? Seraph23 A fascist or a genius? Cadigan Frank> Sometimes I couldn't tell... Cadigan Frank> And all I can say is, a writer has to have some secrets. BCS Frank Seraph, that assumes that a writer knows better than others? :) Cadigan Seraph> Depends on who you ask. Right now... Patterner Hi Beowulf! Welcome to the Other*Worlds*Cafe chat with cyberpunk author Pat Cadigan! APEHAUS Welcome. Thankyou. Seraph23 Dunno Frank, but while she's here... Cadigan I am making my son do his homework, so he thinks I'm a fascist. Patterner We're not using protocol right now; just let Pat finish her current question before asking another. :) Cadigan On the other hand, my sweetheart Chris says I'm a genius. Patterner I'd listen to the grownup. :) Cadigan Seraph> Since I'm a mother, I have to say that I'm both fascist and genius... APEHAUS You are a genius Cadigan. Cadigan as circumstances require. Seraph23 Pat, so true. Cadigan Apehaus> I was going to ask you to put that in writing when I remember... Cadigan ed...you did. Cadigan Apehaus> Anyway, thank you. You're too kind. APEHAUS How does your genius justify your facism? Seraph23 LMAO! Shadowjakk Parenthood justifies fascism. It's a fait accompli. :) Cadigan Apehaus> Because if I don't make my son do his homework, he'll screw up and blame me later. JNRChip LOL Cadigan I'd rather have him blame me now. Beowulf S Geniuses are better, they SHOULD be in control, ofcource... RowrBasil (reaching for my black shirt..Fascists never need justification.) APEHAUS So your are a complete despot, or a benevolent aristocrat? Cadigan I find it endlessly amusing that an old hippie like myself should be juggling the word Cadigan Fascist. Seraph23 Ya mentioned England.... Pat, are you influenced by the big Seraph23 Semiotics movement, and deconstructionsim running rampant over Seraph23 there? ( Seraph23 and here for that matter) APEHAUS Yeah, there are a lot of old hippies who are now faciast. Enanciodromia? BCS Frank Heck, Adolph was a down and out Bohemian artist too. :) Cadigan Seraph>I'm not so much influenced by it as I've discovered that I sort of intersect it... Cadigan so I'm studying up on it. Seraph23 Oh? Patterner Speaking of your hippie days, tell us again about the march on Washington. I love that story,... RowrBasil Good chat..got to go find a Beer Hall.. Patterner and I'm sure not everybody has heard it. Patterner See ya, Rowr! Cadigan My new project is going to France to meeet Baudrillard. Shadowjakk Night, Rowr! Cadigan Patt> Oh, my. Well... Techyo <- would love to hear it! Beowulf S nite Seraph23 :) Tres cool, too bad Foucault wasn't still kickin' Patterner Night, Beowulf! Shadowjakk Night, Wulf! Cadigan (feeling suddenly old)--This was back in 1971, when I was a freshman in college... Shadowjakk Do I hear an Ecco, Seraph? :) Cadigan Shadowjakk> Terrible. I salute you. JNRChip LOL Shadow! Techyo ROFL Seraph23 Actually, Shadow... Michel Foucault ... but I get yourdrift.;) Cadigan A bunch of us went down to Washington DC from the Univ of Massachusetts-Amherst... Cadigan in a rented truck to join the Mayday Protest against the Vietnam War... Seraph23 UMASS? Saints preserve us... we're allum. Cadigan We spent the night in West Potomac Park, where there was an all-night rock concert going on. Seraph23 heya BABE Cadigan Seraph> Really. I didn't graduate--I transferred to Univ of Kansas and got my degree there.. BABEthoven Heya Ser Patterner Hi Babe! Welcome to the Other*Worlds*Cafe chat with cyberpunk author Pat Cadigan! BABEthoven Hi Patt BABEthoven Hi author Pat C. Seraph23 Go on with the story pat, we'll compare geography some other time. BCS Frank Kansas? I drove through there once! :) Cadigan And the next morning, when we got up... Cadigan There was an announcement that the police were coming in to clear the park... Cadigan And anyone who stayed would be teargassed and arrested... Cadigan So we all left... Cadigan and when we got to the street... Cadigan there was a line of police as far up and down the street as the eye could see... Cadigan And they were dressed for a riot. Cadigan So we got out of there... APEHAUS The same generation has now formed right wing militias. Dangerous generation. Cadigan And we all found places to crash for the next night... Cadigan Apehaus> Same generation, maybe, but not necessarily the same people... APEHAUS Not necessarily. Cadigan And no more dangerous than any other generation, in my opinionated opinion... Cadigan Considering history. Cadigan Anyway... APEHAUS Well it's my generation too. Did not mean it as an attack. Cadigan The following day, we went out to protest the war... Cadigan Apehaus> Not taken as an attack... Techyo LOL I'd have to stand with Pat on that! And BTW 43 or 44 isn't old! Cadigan Just wanted to say that the most dangerous generation is always... Cadigan the generation that is in charge. Seraph23 Live the dream Techyo ;) APEHAUS I was in DC then. Got the gas, the whole bit. JNRChip It isn't old, Ser. Trust me. :) Cadigan Well, we all got gassed, and chased by cops... Techyo <- I do Ser. ;) Cadigan and towards noon, it was all getting pretty old... Seraph23 Ok Chip... I trust ya Cadigan And a bunch of us were standing on the street corner saying... Cadigan Jeez, I don't think this is going to stop the war... APEHAUS Did not go to Nam because I pulled a high lottery number. Good thing. Cadigan You want to go to the Smithsonian? Yeah, let's all go to the Smithsonian... APEHAUS Being from working class Detroit I had "cong bait" written on my forehead. Cadigan When a busload of riot police pulled up right in front of us... Cadigan and the cops just exploded out of the bus... Cadigan and ran at us... Cadigan And we all panicked and ran from them... Cadigan The smart thing would have been to drop to the ground and cover your head... Cadigan But it was my first major demonstration.... Seraph23 "Whera ya going with dem signs" "To the museum, honest..." LOL Cadigan Anyway, I was running around the corner with the rest of the group... Cadigan And the cops got all mixed in with us... Cadigan so there were cops running in front of me and beside me... Cadigan and behind me... Techyo Busted! Cadigan and the cop runnign in front of me looked over his shoulder and saw me... Cadigan And whacked me in the stomach with his billyclub... Seraph23 Yikes ===;O Cadigan So I cut across a parking lot with some other kids... Cadigan And a bunch of cops had us cut off there... Cadigan and then the cop behind me gave me a really hard whack on the head with his billyclub... Patterner Hi JHansen! Welcome to the Other*Worlds*Cafe chat with cyberpunk author Pat Cadigan! Cadigan And I went down hard... Cadigan But I got up and I thought, I'll surrender... Cadigan So I offered myself for arrest... Cadigan But all the cops around me... Patterner (Pat is telling us about the MayDay demonstration in Washington when she was in college) Cadigan each had a kid... Cadigan And they were all whacking away on these kids with their billyclubs... Cadigan and they wouldn't pay any attention to me... Cadigan And when I found one who wasn't... Cadigan He didn't want to have anything to do with me... Cadigan And I didn't know it, but it was because I was bleeding profusely from the head... Cadigan And they didn't want to have a headwound in the paddywagon... Cadigan This elderly schoolteacher saw me... Cadigan and she put me in her car and took me to the nearest hospital... Cadigan Which happened to be the same place they took Ronald Reagan when he got shot a decade later. Cadigan Anyway... Cadigan Halfway there... David PL A real feeding frenzy Cadigan Protestors had clogged up traffic so badly that we had to get out and walk... Cadigan So I got there and the emergency room was *packed*... Cadigan There were kids who had been gassed and maced, one kid who had been run over by a patrol car Cadigan It was insane and hysterical... Cadigan I got my head stitched up... Cadigan And then a few days later, I went home... Cadigan And I thought I had put one over on my mother... Cadigan Because I told her I had gone camping... Techyo Yeah it was all on TV though. Cadigan Little did I know, she saw me on television. Cadigan TEch> Exactly. An awful lot of us got caught that way. JaniceMars LOLOLOL. Techyo <-thinks I remember watching it. Patterner Thanks for telling the story again, Pat! Cadigan There were so many people arrested... BCS Frank "Big Mother" was watching! :) Shadowjakk Big Mother was watching? :) Seraph23 Hiya Live Patterner Hi Zombie! Welcome to the Other*Worlds*Cafe chat with cyberpunk author Pat Cadigan! BCS Frank gmta :) Cadigan They literally used RFK stadium for a holding cell. Patterner Hi Sham! Welcome to the Other*Worlds*Cafe chat with cyberpunk author Pat Cadigan! Shadowjakk LOLOL, Frank! JNRChip Echo, Shadow? :) Shadowjakk Synchronicity, I guess. :) Patterner The reason I know this story is because I once asked Pat about a story of hers.. JNRChip Hi Marg! Patterner "Dispatches from the Revolution" (which I highly recommend)... Patterner and she replied with this story (although not in this detail). Shadowjakk BTW, you have a fine mind, Frank. :) Techyo I was really disturbed by what I saw then. The police were way out of hand. Patterner Do you find that those memories still affect what you write, how you act? Patterner Hi Marg! Welcome to the Other*Worlds*Cafe chat with cyberpunk author Pat Cadigan! Cadigan Patt> Oh, sure... Cadigan Not always in the expected ways... Patterner We're not using protocol right now; just let Pat finish the current question before asking another. :) Margaeli Evening, All!! Did know if we were in protocol or no! :) BCS Frank Cadigan For instance, I have never been so frightened as I was when I cut across... Cadigan that parking lot and saw more cops coming at me... Cadigan And it sure was a different fear than being spooked in a dark room... Cadigan Or by a scary movie... Seraph23 Or by a bad review? Cadigan Seraph> Bad reviews don't scare me. I've been worked over by experts, remember? LiveZombie Or by a bad Rutabaga? Seraph23 Ahh true. Seraph23 Do ya think VR will help with politics? Seraph23 VR demonstrations? Cadigan And when I have to write a scared character, that's what I reach for. Seraph23 VR town halls? JaniceMars Cool. Cadigan Seraph> If you can pull people away from the VR Riviera to attend. Patterner LOL! Seraph23 LOLOL Cadigan LiveZ> Bad rutabagas don't scare me. I have a child. Shadowjakk Tough to do. :) Seraph23 So, we're doomed then? technocrats running things while we VR snooze? Cadigan Seraph> Or, in other words, just like it is now. Shadowjakk Especially if they bought the Claudia Schiffer Riviera VR package. Seraph23 Oh such a pessimist.... Patterner LOL, Shadow! Cadigan Seraph> People always ask me... Cadigan if I'm optimistic or pessimistic... Seraph23 And? Cadigan About the future... Cadigan And the fact is... Cadigan Whetehr the future is bright or dark depends on who you are... Cadigan If you've just been diagnosed HIV positive, it's a different future altogether. Cadigan If you've always had everything you've ever wanted, and you find yourself... Cadigan suddenly downwardly mobile... Cadigan You're not going to find the future especially bright, regardless of how great the VR is. Cadigan If you see what I mean. Cadigan We have an awful lot of housecleaning to do... Seraph23 Hmmm, ok...so if life stinks, then life will stink. gotcha Cadigan Not just as a nation... Shadowjakk I certainly do. LiveZombie Well, we see it, but we can't tell if it's you or a VR Cadigan, so we're withholding judgement... Cadigan but as a global civilization... Patterner LOL, Zombie! Patterner Do you ever find yourself writing about that, Pat? Cadigan LiveZ> I'll never tell. Cadigan Patt> It will probably be in the Future Japan book, actually... Cadigan You know, there's a lot of speculation about... Cadigan What Seraph mentioned earlier... Cadigan All of us blissfully oblivious in our VR gear while technocrats or whoever, are in charge... Cadigan In the future... Cadigan But we have that now... Shadowjakk TV serves the same purpose. Cadigan We go out to shopping malls and buy our *things*... Cadigan whatever they are... David PL Marching Morons BCS Frank Hmmm... Stephen Binet's "The Machine Stops...?" Cadigan and most people would seem to be blissfully unaware that a lot of that cheap imported... Seraph23 Ok..lemme ask this then... are you saying that a disproportionately Seraph23 small group will reap undue rewards from the coming "Third Wave" ? Seraph23 (Toffler). No democratic side benefits? Cadigan designer stuff is produced by child slave labor in the third world... LiveZombie Wait a minute. If politics is arguing about distribution, and we don't care about politics - Cadigan conditons that would cause riots and revolution--supposedly--if we subjected our own people. Shadowjakk And Kress' Beggar work touches on the same subject, obliquely. Cadigan to them... LiveZombie doesn;t that mean that we're more or less well served? Must we always be up in arms? JaniceMars :::getting garden hose:::: Seraph23 ehehehe, sorry Cadigan LiveZ> There is an area between up in arms and stuporous. Shadowjakk France? Cadigan Shadowjakk> Good one! LiveZombie Well, of course, but I would argue that area is still pretty well populated in America. Patterner How do we make that child slave labor more real to American consumers, then? Patterner How do we encourage people to change. Cadigan Patt> Now there's a ticklish subject... Cadigan I wish it were as easy as saying, "Well, we just do a, b, and c"... Cadigan But it isn't... LiveZombie No, no! D and F are the answer! Cadigan Because it's never just one thing that is happening... Seraph23 LOL Techyo <- afraid we're heading towards child labor here. Again! Cadigan How much right does one country have to interfere with another country's internal conditions Cadigan What I have hope for actually... Cadigan is that global communications will make people aware... Patterner Hi PDunc! Welcome to the Other*Worlds*Cafe chat with cyberpunk author Pat Cadigan! BCS Frank Techyo, look at the public school systems... "being 6 gets to 10 to 20," re juvenile "freedom." Cadigan Child slave labor in the third world isn't happening in secret cellars and dungeons... Cadigan it's right out in the open... David PL Which is the greater evil- neglected children or working children? Cadigan A kid from Canada went to one of those countries with a video camera and filmed it in public Cadigan David PL> How about neglected children working? We've had that in this country... Cadigan earlier in this century. And I bet if you know where to look, we still do. Patterner Folks, our time with Pat is almost up. Cadigan Anyway, the Canadian kid put together his own organization to make people aware... Cadigan And he goes around lecturing and showing his videos... Seraph23 Ohhhh "Witness"? Cadigan And that is one hell of a great kid. Patterner Pat, do you have a last word or two for us? Seraph23 They had a benefit for that justlast night, raised over $350,000 Cadigan Yes. Thank you all for showing up and tolerating my pontifications. Shadowjakk We loved it, Pat! Patterner LOL! We enjoyed it! Estreya Enjoyed it, Pat. ;) Techyo No Patt thank you! LiveZombie Thank You, Pat! And Patt! Patterner I really appreciate your coming to chat with us again, and of course, you're.. Margaeli Thanks for pontificating!! :) Cadigan And thanks for asking the hard questions. David PL Thanks Pat C Good night all Seraph23 Pat, it was.... well, it was "alright". Thanks Patterner always welcome to come back! JNRChip Thanks, Pat! Patterner Night, David! Shadowjakk ::::patting all around:::: Cadigan Nite, everybody. Thanks for a great time. Patterner Let me tell you what's happening next week: Seraph23 "hard"? ehehe, not even close JaniceMars ::standing up for a second::: Techyo And thanks for the sories too! I.E. your work! Techyo er stories! Patterner Monday, May 6, at 9 pm ET in the OMNI SF/Fantasy chat room: Tomorrow is Yesterday. Patterner Will time travel ever be possible? How do you handle paradox? Can one person change history? Patterner Join DreamMinder to discuss one of science fiction's most intriguing themes, time travel and paradox. LiveZombie And thanks for typing so neatly! And the excellent grammar! Patterner All period costumes welcome. JNRChip Night, gang! Shadowjakk Again, any thanks, Pat! Patterner And as Janice mentioned in her mailer, we're going to have a web site! Shadowjakk LOL..many. :) Patterner Jan, what's the URL? JaniceMars Well folks, I'll be going offline to zip this log ... JaniceMars and load it up so that it can be downloaded from ... JaniceMars the O*W*C's web site.~The URL ... JaniceMars is:~http://www.suba.com/~janice.~If you ... JaniceMars have a home page, send me the URL for the ... JaniceMars member's area of the Web Site. If you have a ... JaniceMars favorite SF Web site, send me the URL for our ... JaniceMars links. And if you're planning on going to a ... JaniceMars convention or have been to one recently, let me ... JaniceMars know if you'd like to review it! JaniceMars ::::Bailing:::: Later! Thanks Patt! Patterner Feel free to stay and chat! If you have any problems, use keyword: GUIDEPAGER. Shadowjakk Wonderful evening, Pat & Patt! Night all! Patterner Night, Shadow! MDuran2870 Hi Seraph! Patterner Have a great night, everybody! Techyo Night ALL! Thanks Patterner!